Diving using Nitrox?

[Rainer]

what I read was that the poster was trying to apply RB principles to say that no one could do more than 35 minutes on a 70 foot dive, and I was disagreeing with that applicatiion.

Hopefully we can all agree that depending on SCR and cylinder size, many of us can get more than 35 minutes at 70'. I don't think most of us will get much more time than that on an AL80, however, regardless of gas choices (again, assuming you'd like to get an OOG buddy to the surface).

 

[billeelou]

get the nitrox course...if its "worth it" is up to you...

 

[amascuba]

Over application? How about incorrect application?.........step 1 allows for 2 divers, step 9 adds 200psi reserve and after that another 200psi? So gas allowance is for 2 divers, plus 400 psi..... 400 psi at what breathing rate though, there is no allowance for that at the later stages. The idea is there in the overall plan, the execution seems to lack flow and too conservative.

My two cents after re-reading the posts. Or maybe I just don't understand.

I'm with you. It's not an over application of RB, but misunderstanding and misuse.

 

[ianr33]

So is it worth the course, naw? Pick up the NOAA materials( as they were one of the first ones to develop the nitrox tables) study hard, get an analyzer and stay well within the guidelines, and then it is worth it!!!

Might be hard to actually get a fill though without the card...................

 

[Nemrod]

Not only is the "Twiddles" formula incorrect and a misapplication it is a non application. I don't use that calculation. I use the "Rule of Thirds" and I adjust that reserve 1/3 and the "turn point" or begin ascent point to the dive conditions and whether solo or with buddy. Snoozer reef dives in 30 feet of water in warm and clear conditions do not warrant a strict application and I adjust per my years of experience--I don't need or use elaborate and misapplied equations to calculate my dive plan. Franky, I don't have a "gas plan" but instead I have a DIVE PLAN which is made in advance and modified to meet current conditions as warranted--plug that in to that silly equation. When planning for repetive dives I can easily benifit from Nitrox at 70-100 feet. On a single dive I can easily hit NDL on an aluminum 80. I dive by the original USN Tables that allow 40 minutes at 80 feet and I modify that per my required safety factor as I see fit if at all and not some formula.
N

 

[Twiddles]

Nemrod the information I provided is not my own and I edited the post early on to provide credit where due. Gas management is not voodoo it has a sound purpose and it is likely ignored by a large portion of the diving community because of the rule of thirds and other shortcutt (simplified gas management) techniques.

The rule of thirds does not consider your buddy or your depth.... or even attempt to determine a specific number where ascent should begin, it only determines your turn around point and your reserve amount. Divers should be able to have a bit more certainty than that.

I say that Nitrox class is sold and in most cases has little or no benefit and tons of misinformation and hype. I believe there is a very limited increase in risk over air. I believe some divers can benefit. I believe the benefit is mainly increased NDL for multiple dives. I believe instructors and certified Nitrox divers alike hype the gas because they either stand to gain by doing so, or are presenting myths they have heard as fact.

At the very least, few actually ask questions about type and quantity of dives, usual average depth, instances of NDL or any other pertinent questions before spouting the various virtues of NITROX the Wonder Gas.

 

[Web Monkey]

This thread has been rather confusing for one who is a relatively new diver and not Nitrox certified.

I have recently been reading up on Nitrox since my wife and I are planning on doing a liveaboard in the Turks & Caicos this summer. It looks as if the dive profiles there plus the repetitive diving over the course of a week would make Nitrox certification a good idea for this trip. Comments?

Go for it. Less nitrogen in the tank means less nitrogen in you.

There is no disadvantage, aside from a minimal additional cost and a little extra care in monitoring your depth, and lots of advantages.

Terry

 

[Nemrod]

I understand and I am not agreeing. Refering to Nitrox as "Nitrox the wonder Gas" is an indication of an agenda. Nobody is being forced to use Nitrox for the real and positive and FACTUAL benifits it provides for many dive profiles.

As to your equations vs my Rule of Thirds, I am staying with what I do as being more flexible and as I stated, it is a guide or "rule" to which I adjust based on the circumstances and dictated by my experience.

Not worth a fuss but simplistic statements that nobody can dive longer than 30 minutes on an aluminum 80 at 70 feet and therefore Nitrox is of no benifit is not a good representation of reality. That's all.

N

 

[Oriskany Divemaster]

Okay...my turn...

I once had an arguement with a cousin who lived in Tampa for a while. When I told him Pensacola was in the Central Time Zone, he argued with me, saying it wasn't. What could I say? How does one argue something like that?


Twiddles, you keep mentioning Nitrox has no benefit to "most divers." Given your sample rate, (the number of divers you've interviewed on your 25-50 dives) I don't think you have a large enough sample rate to convince those of us who have spoken with/mentored/instucted/etc... hundreds of recreational divers from all over the world.

I know... I know...it's not the number of dives...it's the quality....blah blah blah. I don't agree with that at all. Even if I did, still, from a scientific point of view, if you're going to generalize "most divers" then you're going to have to talk to a few more folks than the people in your OW1 class.

And if you think intructors steer people into Nitrox just to pick up a few bucks for several hours of work, then you have an uneducated view of intructors.

I'd suggest someone in your area offer you a free course in Nitrox, AND provide Nitrox fills for your next ten dives. After that, I'm sure you'll be sold on the benefits. And maybe...just maybe... you'll find it so enjoyable, you'll get a few more dives under your belt and you can be taken just a little bit more seriously.

 

[Warren_L]

And if you think intructors steer people into Nitrox just to pick up a few bucks for several hours of work, then you have an uneducated view of intructors.

Ain't that the truth! I teach the PADI enriched air course (in fact, this coming weekend) and I can tell you, I'm not doing it for the money. I really just do it gratis for the shop I teach through as they treat me really well with equipment and fills. But I do believe the subject matter has great relevance and value to recreational diving, so it is one of the specialties I enjoy teaching (that and digital uw photography...)