Diving using Nitrox?

[ianr33]

Is this the 5 minute argument or the full half hour?

Have never heard such twaddle.

 

[adurso]

Thats why I stayed out of this...

 

[Meng_Tze]

yeah, I am done too

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I'm gone as well. Not worth the effort.

 

[Nemrod]

I can see why you call yourself a "problem child."

Pulling rip cord--pow---I am under canopy and this ride is done.

N

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

Halemano, DAN has the information you require as well as the slight increase of risk for DCI (granted it is assumed this increase is caused by diving out of MOD). It is none the less an increased risk. As to not asking the questions regarding actual need vs assumed benefit, regardless of the reason it doesnt benefit the diver.

Well if DAN has that information they are not giving it to me without a chunk of my change. All I can find on-line is an increased risk of O-tox if the diver does not follow accepted training. Again I ask; will you show us relevant data on EANx induced O-tox compared to undeserved DCI on air? With your stated dive experience, stating you believe there is more risk with nitrox without backing it up somehow is not going to fly with some of us. If you could actually produce any part of a statistically signifigant study conclusion I would thank you for increasing my knowledge.

As far as your questioning posters all those questions before stating nitrox benefits, I was mostly poking fun at the illegible syntax of that statement (& possibly others), BUT;

Finally...

Nitrox diving may extend bottom times or decrease the possibility of decompression sickness, depending on how it's used, but it adds to the risk of oxygen toxicity.

IS the way DAN states it, without asking any of your questions.

Questions! We don't need no stinking Questions!

 

[Butch103]

Nitrox benefits all divers!!!! It increases the length of dives because it increases the NDL. A benefit!! It decreases surface intervals which is a benefit to all divers doing multiple dives in a day, or during a week of multiple dives. It does not affect your SAC rate. Multiple dives may affect your SAC rates.

 

[Gdog]

WOW.......loved it!!!! Twiddle........way to stir the pot. I agree with Lee, of course...have used Nitrox for the last few years, use it alot. Me? Makes me feel much better after a cold dive!!! Dont care if it is proven, disproven, didnt use it for that, just a welcome side effect! Much safer than air above the MOD, less nitrogen loading..my simple math skilz tell me that. If nothing else, that is all I need. Anyway, Im out...gotta go get more popcorn so I can enjoy the rest of this....

 

[Leejnd]

Not sure there will be much of a "rest of this". The thing is, when there's only one person on one side arguing a clearly indefensible position, and everyone else in the thread is on the other (clearly factually accurate) side, it becomes just an exercise in who can toss out the better insults. I'm not particularly interested in participating in that kind of juvenile behavior (in spite of my initial desire to take his bait and respond to his nasty little dig at me).

As for my suggestion that this is a troll situation, note that the definition of an internet troll is someone who posts controversial or contrary messages with the intention of baiting others into an argumentative response. The only person I can see in this thread who seems to have done so is Twaddles, with his continued misrepresentations of the facts surrounding Nitrox. Hence my suggestion. This was not intended as an insult, siimply an observation. His response of a personal insult to me only serves to enhance that appearance.

You know, when one person is marching out of step of the rest of the parade, who is in the "wrong" - the parade, or the individual? Just food for thought.

I'm out of popcorn now...so back to more interesting (and reasonable) discussions.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

After Nemrod swooped away, I very nearly joined him, but in conclusion here's my last post on this thread.

It does not affect your SAC rate.

:no
According to the only valid blind testing I am aware of, The Truth About Nitrox is a web page answering many questions and myths in this thread:

Gas Consumption

Do breathing rates improve when a diver uses nitrox rather than air? According to our tests, the answer is a pretty clear "yes." On average, a diver breathing a nitrox mix will use gas more efficiently than a similar diver who breathes regular air.

In-water tests were conducted between 33 and 99 feet, comparing air (21 percent oxygen) and EAN 36 (36 percent oxygen). Tests were done "in the blind"-all tanks were labeled nitrox, but the oxygen percentage was not marked. The tanks were carefully analyzed, but only the dive supervisor knew which contained air and which contained EAN 36. The tanks were issued in random order to the divers, who swam at a steady rate (one mph), or sat at rest on the bottom. All tests were carried out in the ocean with divers in full scuba gear.

The at-rest tests (done at 99 feet) revealed no difference between the basic breathing rates of divers on air and divers on nitrox. However, in the controlled course runs, swimming at one mph, nitrox divers averaged 2 psi per minute better gas consumption than air divers. This result was based on 54 trials.
If this nitrox advantage held true over an entire dive of 60 minutes at 66 feet, there would be 360 psi more gas available to the nitrox user, a 12 percent improvement when using a standard aluminum 80.

If twiddles is still around, from the same web page, here is the only DAN statement with regard to DCI risk I can find on-line.

DAN Nitrox Workshop Consensus Recommendations

In November 2000, DAN brought together three dozen leaders in nitrox use and training from recreational and technical training associations, manufacturers, researchers, medical and legal experts, and educational institutions, under the leadership of Michael Lang, Diving Officer of the Smithsonian Institution.
The two-day workshop covered operational data, physiology, risk management, training and equipment. Although significant and worthwhile debate occurred, a higher level of consensus was reached than has been reached in similar workshops. For entry-level, recreational open-circuit nitrox diving, the consensus was:

· No evidence was presented that showed an increased risk of DCS from the use of oxygen-enriched air (nitrox) versus compressed air.

· A maximum PPO2 of 1.6 atms was accepted, based on its history of use and scientific studies.

· Routine carbon dioxide retention screening is not necessary.

· Oxygen analyzers should use a controlled-flow sampling device.

· Oxygen analysis of the breathing gas should be performed by the blender or dispenser and verified by the end user.

· Training agencies recognize the effectiveness of dive computers.

· For recreational diving, there is no need to track whole body exposure to oxygen (OTU/UPTD).

· Use of the CNS Oxygen Clock concept, based on NOAA oxygen exposure limits, should be taught. However, it should be noted that CNS oxygen toxicity could occur suddenly and unexpectedly.

· No evidence was presented, based on history of use, to show an unreasonable risk of fire or ignition when using up to 40 percent nitrox with standard scuba equipment. The level of risk is related to specific equipment configurations and the user should rely on the manufacturer's recommendations.