OP
wolf eel
Contributor
You would have no idea as to the health of your buddy. You would not be able to judge how the guy is by looking he may lie just to dive.
Cheers
Derek
Diving health
- Thread starter wolf eel
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You would have no idea as to the health of your buddy. You would not be able to judge how the guy is by looking he may lie just to dive.
Cheers
Derek
bwerb
Hoser/English Translator, eh
That's why I advocate developing a team approach to diving...sure it isn't always practical to everyone in all cases but...if you have a team of like minded individuals who you dive with regularly or who tend to follow along the same mindset regarding health, you tend to stack the cards in your favor.
Back to "kids" for a minute. The reason I posted the playground thing was actually an attempt to illustrate that many of the small individual things which creep into our day to day societal lives are actually a process of bit by bit "teaching" the next generation a new set of expectations. As we step further and further away from teaching personal responsibility...including what we choose to eat and how we choose to stay healthy...and as we start relying on "them" to make our world safe for "us", we actually perpetuate the exact situation your initial post illustrates. I believe it is up to US to turn it around...starting with our own friends and families. Many of the issues which we now face are simply symptoms of a much greater problem. It's not too late to correct.
Oh...as far as the law goes in Canada regarding assistance...taking a Rescue Diver course gives you a few skills and mindsets...but the law here is hardly going to slap you down for not performing like the Coast Guard Dive team...who are legislated to go into the water only with adequete back-up (buddy or tender or both).
Back to "kids" for a minute. The reason I posted the playground thing was actually an attempt to illustrate that many of the small individual things which creep into our day to day societal lives are actually a process of bit by bit "teaching" the next generation a new set of expectations. As we step further and further away from teaching personal responsibility...including what we choose to eat and how we choose to stay healthy...and as we start relying on "them" to make our world safe for "us", we actually perpetuate the exact situation your initial post illustrates. I believe it is up to US to turn it around...starting with our own friends and families. Many of the issues which we now face are simply symptoms of a much greater problem. It's not too late to correct.
Oh...as far as the law goes in Canada regarding assistance...taking a Rescue Diver course gives you a few skills and mindsets...but the law here is hardly going to slap you down for not performing like the Coast Guard Dive team...who are legislated to go into the water only with adequete back-up (buddy or tender or both).
OP
wolf eel
Contributor
I still think if you have all the training needed then you may be charged with something for doing nothing. Why else do you get trained ?
It was really about health issues and people not being honest about it. Like heart trouble and such.
Derek
Note:
You are under no legal obligation to begin first aid in Canada - whether you are a basic 1st Aider, paramedic ( off duty ) or physician ( off duty ); however, if you begin 1st aid, you MUST continue to provide care to the level of your training until / unless one or more of the following occurrs:
> the scene becomes dangerous to your personal safety to continue
> You become too exhausted to continue
> You are relieved by an equal or higher medical authority
And that is the way it is in Canuck-land, my friends.
G'Night!
D.S.D.
Also: Each Province has its' own form of the Good Samaritan Act. The Act exists to protect the 1st Aider from legal culpability when rendering assistance, PROVIDED, the 1st Aider provides care within the limits of their training, does not act in a reckless or negligent fashion & only ceases providing care for the aforementioned reasons.
You are under no legal obligation to begin first aid in Canada - whether you are a basic 1st Aider, paramedic ( off duty ) or physician ( off duty ); however, if you begin 1st aid, you MUST continue to provide care to the level of your training until / unless one or more of the following occurrs:
> the scene becomes dangerous to your personal safety to continue
> You become too exhausted to continue
> You are relieved by an equal or higher medical authority
And that is the way it is in Canuck-land, my friends.
G'Night!
D.S.D.
Also: Each Province has its' own form of the Good Samaritan Act. The Act exists to protect the 1st Aider from legal culpability when rendering assistance, PROVIDED, the 1st Aider provides care within the limits of their training, does not act in a reckless or negligent fashion & only ceases providing care for the aforementioned reasons.
Far too much is far too regulated. Bureaucrats have far too much power over things they cannot begin to comprehend.
Personal responsibility -- though not popular -- rules!!
theskull
Personal responsibility -- though not popular -- rules!!
theskull
OP
wolf eel
Contributor
I think the thread went off a bit.
If it is not law to help a injured person when you are trained then it should be.
All I was talking about is the older diver guy that has health issues but does not care to mention it ans dies. From what I am getting is too bad for him ? I do agree but in the end I think we all will be diving with even more law and obligation
Derek
bwerb
Hoser/English Translator, eh
Derek,
You'll only be diving with more law and more regulation because of the "unhealthy" if you allow those who know nothing to write the laws. Remember...as many divers as there are...we are a tiny minority in the world. "Diver dies" makes great headline but is a far from common occurence.
Recall again what your definition of "training" is...I'm sorry but a Rescue cert. is really nice and valuable and every diver should have it but...it isn't a professional level rescue course. Frankly the training is more of a confidence booster and increases your overall awareness. As to someone having an incident in front of us, I can pretty confidently say that almost all of us would do what we could within our limits to assist...but diving past my limitations in a way which puts my own life at risk of not seeing my family again to save a "buddy of circumstance" who has a cardiac event underwater and falls away into oblivion isn't going to happen. If his/her lack of concern for their own life has led them to the point of diving against common sense...and they choose to involve an oblivious bystander in their activity...then unfortunately, yes...it is too bad for them. It is not societies responsibility (as much as it it legislated) to always offer a nice easy "safe" and bubble wrapped world for us to bounce along through...it is our own responsibility to ensure that we are trained, in shape etc. enough to do the sport/activity in a manner that the number of ascents equals the number of decents.
You'll only be diving with more law and more regulation because of the "unhealthy" if you allow those who know nothing to write the laws. Remember...as many divers as there are...we are a tiny minority in the world. "Diver dies" makes great headline but is a far from common occurence.
Recall again what your definition of "training" is...I'm sorry but a Rescue cert. is really nice and valuable and every diver should have it but...it isn't a professional level rescue course. Frankly the training is more of a confidence booster and increases your overall awareness. As to someone having an incident in front of us, I can pretty confidently say that almost all of us would do what we could within our limits to assist...but diving past my limitations in a way which puts my own life at risk of not seeing my family again to save a "buddy of circumstance" who has a cardiac event underwater and falls away into oblivion isn't going to happen. If his/her lack of concern for their own life has led them to the point of diving against common sense...and they choose to involve an oblivious bystander in their activity...then unfortunately, yes...it is too bad for them. It is not societies responsibility (as much as it it legislated) to always offer a nice easy "safe" and bubble wrapped world for us to bounce along through...it is our own responsibility to ensure that we are trained, in shape etc. enough to do the sport/activity in a manner that the number of ascents equals the number of decents.
dscheck
Registered
bwerb,
I cannot agree with your ideas enough.
If you take a good look around and start to really understand what is going on socially and politically, ever so slowly, each and every one of our rights are being removed.
For example, we have no right to not wear a seat belt without fear from prosecution, most of us have no right to not wear a helmet while riding a motorcycle without the fear of prosecution, here in NY we have no right to talk on a cellular phone without a headset while driving without fear of prosecution, we have no right to own firearms without being on a list any government agent can look at (read the gun control laws of Germany in the 1930's, they are eerily similar to the current US laws), children under 16 have no right to ride a bicycle without a helmet, we have no right to plan our own retirement without contributing to everyone else's (social security) I can continue for a long time if anyone wishes, but I think you get my point.
Given the opportunity, government tends to take away personal freedoms whenever they can, it is all about "gaining power and keeping power".
Now, you are suggesting that we allow the government to remove more of our personal freedoms? I think not, I agree with the whole natural selection idea, if a person chooses to risk their life and the dice comes up snake-eyes, that is how things happens. Who am I to dictate what they can or cannot do, I just won't involve myself with them.
And Wolfeel, one final thought, I want to understand why in two seperate threads when evidence of "not being legally bound to perform firstaid/rescue" has been presented, you ignore the information and/or start another thread and suggest again that you would be held legally responsible?
I cannot agree with your ideas enough.
If you take a good look around and start to really understand what is going on socially and politically, ever so slowly, each and every one of our rights are being removed.
For example, we have no right to not wear a seat belt without fear from prosecution, most of us have no right to not wear a helmet while riding a motorcycle without the fear of prosecution, here in NY we have no right to talk on a cellular phone without a headset while driving without fear of prosecution, we have no right to own firearms without being on a list any government agent can look at (read the gun control laws of Germany in the 1930's, they are eerily similar to the current US laws), children under 16 have no right to ride a bicycle without a helmet, we have no right to plan our own retirement without contributing to everyone else's (social security) I can continue for a long time if anyone wishes, but I think you get my point.
Given the opportunity, government tends to take away personal freedoms whenever they can, it is all about "gaining power and keeping power".
Now, you are suggesting that we allow the government to remove more of our personal freedoms? I think not, I agree with the whole natural selection idea, if a person chooses to risk their life and the dice comes up snake-eyes, that is how things happens. Who am I to dictate what they can or cannot do, I just won't involve myself with them.
And Wolfeel, one final thought, I want to understand why in two seperate threads when evidence of "not being legally bound to perform firstaid/rescue" has been presented, you ignore the information and/or start another thread and suggest again that you would be held legally responsible?
OP
wolf eel
Contributor
I was never talking about the rescue course it was more of a question about people who are unhealthy and dive. It was more about the people who put others in harms way due to there health. Also it was about the goverentment stepping in because we have no guide lines for health realy. The part is yes if the rescue course is just a joke then why have it all ?
Derek
1. Absolutely not.
2. If you feel it's a question, then sure.
3. No.
2. If you feel it's a question, then sure.
3. No.
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