Diving health

[ShakaZulu]

Lets take a look at my own case. I went for a standard physical before I got certified. Everything was fine. Now, 5 years later, the story has chanced. I started feeling weird chest pains after diving. Went for an EKG and all the other fun stuff, result First Degree AV Block. Seeing a Cardiac Physician next. If had kept on diving without medication, I may very well have joined the 20-30 percent of divers that die of cardiac arrest (not that I mind going that way). Every diver needs to go for regular physicals, in a similar way as you service your vehicle routinely. Does this need to be regulated, don’t think so. Maybe we should add a chapter on diver health in the instruction…….. I also don't want any more rules to "Protect The Moron" making my life a pain.

 

[scubagirl15]

Whatever happened to assuming and accepting responsibility for your own actions?

Oh never mind...I forgot...the rest of the world owes it to me to take care of me and ensure I don't suffer the consequences of my own decisions....

I don't mean to sound callous and cavalier about this, but seriously, what ever happened to accepting responsibility for your own actions?

 

[wolf eel]

[scubagirl15
Whatever happened to assuming and accepting responsibility for your own actions?

Oh never mind...I forgot...the rest of the world owes it to me to take care of me and ensure I don't suffer the consequences of my own decisions....

I don't mean to sound callous and cavalier about this, but seriously, what ever happened to accepting responsibility for your own actions?]

This is the point we no longer live in a world where accepting your risk does not effect others.

OK if the rescue diver looked over and saw a person sinking and does nothing that is all his/her fault and in the event they get bent and the rescued diver dies because of the rapid accent the rescuer could be charged for that death. Unless you are willing to live in a world that allows others to just let you die which is OK by me as I am healthy enough and I dive solo lol then others become resposibile to you with out knowledge or consent. Thats why I am one of those dumb ***'s that will do what ever it takes to help others hoping that if that happens to me I will have someone there for me. But knowing I may have trouble diving deep knowing you should not and your brain acts up and cause's someone to have a hyper ride with me is not fair to others. As was the case just recently I chose not to possible screw up others lives and lie which in turn had it all worked out I would have looked much better to the people who where here. My health could cause others to have health issues themselves (dcs hit and so on). All because we did not want any laws to stop our way of life. If the law was in effect only to protect the rescuer then by all means dive as out of shape as you want because I have NO obligation to help you but as it stands I am obligated by law to help.

Derek

 

[scubagirl15]

This is the point we no longer live in a world where accepting your risk does not effect others.

OK if the rescue diver looked over and saw a person sinking and does nothing that is all his/her fault and in the event they get bent and the rescued diver dies because of the rapid accent the rescuer could be charged for that death. Unless you are willing to live in a world that allows others to just let you die which is OK by me as I am healthy enough and I dive solo lol then others become resposibile to you with out knowledge or consent. Thats why I am one of those dumb ***'s that will do what ever it takes to help others hoping that if that happens to me I will have someone there for me. But knowing I may have trouble diving deep knowing you should not and your brain acts up and cause's someone to have a hyper ride with me is not fair to others. As was the case just recently I chose not to possible screw up others lives and lie which in turn had it all worked out I would have looked much better to the people who where here. My health could cause others to have health issues themselves (dcs hit and so on). All because we did not want any laws to stop our way of life. If the law was in effect only to protect the rescuer then by all means dive as out of shape as you want because I have NO obligation to help you but as it stands I am obligated by law to help.

Derek

Are you sure you're "obligated by law" to help?

Also, the Good Samaritan law is in effect in many jurisdictions to protect the rescuer from potential lawsuits should the rescue be unsuccessful.

In CPR/First Aid and in Rescue Diver courses, don't they teach us to ensure that if we choose to help someone, our first obligation is to not to risk our own safety and possibly create a situation with two victims instead of one?

Yes, I am willing to live in a world where others allow me to die; I'm not sure if it's even a matter of willingness so much as acceptance that that's how it is. It doesn't mean that I would allow someone else to die without at least attempting to help, but I do accept that no one is obliged to help me.

I also got to wondering: if someone is out having a lovely solitary run in the middle of the woods, has a heart attack and dies before being discovered, who will legislate or govern or dictate that C/V health exam? There's no agency that certifies people who run, yet running is certainly a very strenuous sport requiring good fitness, if not better than required for diving. What then?

 

[sea nmf]

I come down on the side of personal responsibility. While I can see your point in the possibility of the rescuer getting injured, I believe it is the rescuers responsibility to protect themselves first. If they get injured or killed as a result of a rescue attempt, they should not blame the rescuee.

I also do not believe that you can judge someone's fitness by the way they look. I know that we tend to do that, though.

 

[DeepSeaDan]

I come down on the side of personal responsibility. While I can see your point in the possibility of the rescuer getting injured, I believe it is the rescuers responsibility to protect themselves first. If they get injured or killed as a result of a rescue attempt, they should not blame the rescuee.

I also do not believe that you can judge someone's fitness by the way they look. I know that we tend to do that, though.

I would say that ignorance remains the biggest hurdle in the fight for the improved general health / well-being of the populace. Denial is another major obstacle - not just in the sufferer of an acute M.I. who will believe their pain is due to anything but a heart attack, but the average joe out there who would rather continue on their merry way in life & not face the unpleasant facts of predisposition to disease due to heredity or any other such depressing news. Better to just let sleeping dogs lie. Ignore it & maybe it'll go away.

The results of such attitudes are sometimes a ticket off of this planet before a reasonable amount of life has been lived.

I think most folks need some help in protecting themselves, & we in the diving community should work towards that end - we just might save a few lives.

D.S.D.

 

[wolf eel]

[Scubagirl Are you sure you're "obligated by law" to help?]

In Canada you are if you have the training to do so. I think it is the same in the states also.

[Also, the Good Samaritan law is in effect in many jurisdictions to protect the rescuer from potential lawsuits should the rescue be unsuccessful.]

The good samaritan law does not cover everything but it has nothing to do with health factors and diving. The point has to do with knowing you could have health issues and doing nothing at all about it.

[In CPR/First Aid and in Rescue Diver courses, don't they teach us to ensure that if we choose to help someone, our first obligation is to not to risk our own safety and possibly create a situation with two victims instead of one?]

I feel to truly have to save someones life you are going to have to chose how much risk are you going to take. IE what happened to start this thread is exceptable risk in my life.

[I also got to wondering: if someone is out having a lovely solitary run in the middle of the woods, has a heart attack and dies before being discovered, who will legislate or govern or dictate that C/V health exam? There's no agency that certifies people who run, yet running is certainly a very strenuous sport requiring good fitness, if not better than required for diving. What then?]

Runner/Solo diver both would have equal roles in the law. Runner out with a freind who is trained with CPR lets freind drop to the ground and stands and watches and does nothing. Thats the same for the rescue diver he would be sol if the family tried real hard to put blame. But this is not the point it's just should we as diver make better judgements towards our fellow divers health ? Would it be bad to have mandatory checks for divers passed a certain age like a license?

Cheers
Derek

 

[bwerb]

Sometimes I think we do far too much to circumvent natural selection.

Sometimes I think we do far too much to point our kids down the path of poor health and sedentary lifestyle which leads to the heart issues this post points out.

Heck, go take a look at the playgrounds in the park or local school...talk about removing anything and everything which "might" somehow cause significant bodily harm to the stupid...or be really fun. No merry-go-rounds, teeter-totters, high slides you could fall off of, steel monkey bars, etc. Most don't even have real swings anymore. We're basically "bubble wrapping" the world we live in...and we wonder why the only adrenaline and excitement kids are in to is in the form of escapist video games...perhaps if their parents actually allowed them to actually take a few risks, skin a few knees and see how much fun the world really is then we wouldn't need to worry so much about them taking their number for their upcoming cardiac arrests.

 

[bwerb]

Oh...yeah...it would be bad to have mandatory health checks. I believe it is a divers responsibility to take care of their own health. Don't dive with people you are uncomfortable with. As a rescuer...always assess if the rescue is going to put you at serious risk of being victim number two.

 

[wolf eel]

[bwerb Sometimes I think we do far too much to circumvent natural selection.

We're basically "bubble wrapping" the world we live in...and we wonder why the only adrenaline and excitement kids are in to is in the form of escapist video games...perhaps if their parents actually allowed them to actually take a few risks, skin a few knees and see how much fun the world really is then we wouldn't need to worry so much about them taking their number for their upcoming cardiac arrests.]

I agree about kids but at fifty five and 240 I think a scrapped knee would look more like a broken knee that may need a doctor. And if you are not wanting to help yourself as in ride a bike or something to aid you will diving then you become at risk to yourself but as a diver you become at risk to your partner.
Derek

I have kids I know what you about parks they suck.