Dives Where DIR fails?

[Divesherpa]

READ CAREFULLY

This is not an attempt to bash DIR or inspire anyone to bash DIR. As I am DIR from time to time (when mandated by a particular dive buddy) and personal preference (most of the time), I want to ask this general question:

What diving situations would DIR not work?

I'll go first. Hopefully the list won't be too long.

1. no mount cave diving

Remember to please keep this in context and not get into a pissing match over DIR. If you believe that DIR will work for every diving environment, then please ignore this thread.

Also, know that to understand a system, you first must understand it weakest links

:weak:

 

[jonnythan]

Is that the "Right" way to dive places that require no or side mounting is not to dive them until the safest possible system can be developed, and that system is then standardized across your team and heavily practiced.

 

[Bob3]

Public Safety Diving
Fast Water Drift Diving
Commercial Seafood Harvesting (heck, just about ANY type of commercial diving)
Toss in most types of spearfishing & shutterbugging, to a lesser extent.
or, how about all those nice tropical resorts catering to the twice a year divers?:bonk:

 

[MikeFerrara]

If one looks at the evolution of cave diving around the world you'll see that the big, completely flooded Florida type caves only exist in a few places. Many if not most caves are dry caves with sections that sump. A cave may have many sumps which need to be passed to explore the dry cave on the other side.

Getting to the sump may require hauling gear a long way over nasty terain doing things like ascending and descending vertical sections of cave using climbing equipment and crawling through tiny cracks. Cave divers have developed methods for conducting this exploration over many decades. Many are very skillfull and have very good safety records. In some places like the UK divers don't get to be cave divers. They must first be cavers. Once you do get to the water it is often low vis and/or small.

The methods developed for conducting this kind of exploration are as valid as any other. These cavers/divers have mapped some of the most significant cave systems in the world.

I won't try to describe the specific methods since I have little experience in that area (see my trip report "Squalid Manor")

A good book to read that will help put it all in perspective is "The Darkness Beckons"by Martin Farr

Exploration of this nature is being conducted all over the world including throughout the US.

With luck Duncan Price (UK cave diver and board member) will step in and give us some info.

 

[salty]

As far as I know a DIR methoud of sidemount diving exists already. I know public safty and comercial diving dont work but DIR was never intended to cover theas types of diving but some of the princapals do cross over, I am curently working with a member of a local fire dept. in improving there dive squad.

I would like to hear more from the spearo's on the board regarding DIR diving. Especialy gear changes to acomadate spear fishing equipment. I dive DIR and spearfish other than the issues with being close to your buddy( a big issue :boom: ) things have worked out so far.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Bob3 once bubbled...
Public Safety Diving
Fast Water Drift Diving
Commercial Seafood Harvesting (heck, just about ANY type of commercial diving)
Toss in most types of spearfishing & shutterbugging, to a lesser extent.
or, how about all those nice tropical resorts catering to the twice a year divers?:bonk:

Public safety diving could take some lessons from DIR since the have a lousy safety record. Around here they drop like flies.

We always use teams for taking pictures.

The twice a year resort diver would be less of a Darwin candidate and do less damage to the environment if the took up some DIR methods

 

[tinman]

Bob3 once bubbled...
...Fast Water Drift Diving...

Bob: what makes DIR not suited to this kind of diving?

 

[wetlettuce]

Hi

Diving in the sea around the UK we often get significant swells which means we can't always decompress at 6 metres or less. This means that divers use 80% mix and deco at around 9 metres so as to stay at a consistent depth.

Then again DIR's philosophy of detailed planning and preparation using the right tools for the job and all that still applies so by allowing for the weather and water conditions that in itself is DIR despite George Irvine's views on decompression.

I think the WKPP cavediving techniques seem to be what you are considering but I don't think thats the be all and end all of DIR after reading the fundamentals book although I may be mistaken.

The WKPP use the tools that work for them and have thousands of dives to prove it and so some of the stuff they do will naturally be extremely specific to that particular environment.

I believe the general principles work for any non commercial diving environment when you keep an open mind about it.

Do we consider the UK caving scene as diving or caving or underwater caving ?. Thats a debate in itself.

IMHO

WetLettuce

 

[Bob3]

My examples apply to gear configuration rather than training /mindset. Lord knows everyone could benefit from more training, especially some of those under funded PSD teams.

One single gear configuration just doesn't work in every situation.
In fast water drift diving there are a couple equipment items that need make the difference. I've seen vented fins get stripped off the foot after sticks & rebar spear through the holes.
Long hose is also at issue, you have very little control if divers are stacked one in front of the other, you need to be side by side & close.
PSDing needs the tender topside (no buddy in water) communications & crappy water call for a FFM, and jackets rather than wings because a fair amount of time is spent on the surface.
Bailout bottles are also needed, and dragging doubles down steep embankments & through brush is begging for trouble.
No buddy, no long hose.

As far as the resort diving, gear configuration is again the topic.
You're going to find very few rental/charter ops willing (or able) to shuck out 3-4 times the $$ for gear that most of their customers won't have any idea how to use anyway. That's just the reality of doing business in a competative field.

Spearfishing & the buddy system could take up a whole topic in itself. I'll just say that a good suicide clip is a great thing to have when you're rig diving & you fail to stone Godzilla's grandpa & he takes off for the bottom in 350' of water. You don't want to be fumbeling with a bolt.

 

[joel_pratt]

Bob,
You bring up some interesting points but you also may have some bad info..

As far as swiftwater goes, not sure what "vented fins" are or why they have holes in them. Most DIR divers prefer the stiffer jet or turtle fins...if you punch a hole in those then you probably shouldnt be diving there. Just because you dive a long hose does not mean that you dive single file...unless you are passing through an obstruction like a pinch in a cave then you should be side by side. You can buddy breathe the long hose side by side with no problem, as a matter of fact the long hose makes it WAY easier to buddy breathe. You can still have the person close, the long hose really adds versitility.

As far as public safety diving goes...I know in this part of the US most of our PS divers do not used topside comms, and crappy vis and harsh conditions is an excellent arguement FOR diving with a buddy. I personally find my backplate and wing substantially more comfortable than my jacket style BC even on the surface. And as for hauling doubles around down embankments...just because you are diving a BP/Wing doesnt mean you are diving doubles. I dive singles with my set up. Not sure why a bailout is needed unless you are diving a CCR, your buddy is your bailout.

For resorts...it is true, initial layout for BP/Wings is more expensive than BUT, as any BP/Wing owner will tell you...the BP/Wing will outlast the BC. Less parts=less maintenance, and I think if most people look past the stigma of BP/Wings they will see that it is even more simplistic than a BC...thats what makes it easier.

Spearfishing, while unique, is still diving. Still need a buddy. Still shouldnt use a suicide clip. I dive in cold water with thick gloves and I have thick fingers to boot...and I still havent seen a situation where a bolt snap was too hard to remove. Plus, I dont know about you, but I sure as heck dont attach my speargun to myself. I would rather buy a new speargun because I let it go that to risk life and limb for a fish.

Hope those examples help Bob!

Joel