Dives and dive time

[Delta74]

Based on only the facts given here, yes the DM/guide screwed the pooch sevreal times, swam off never looking back, umm not good, the you will listen to me, and when i say out you get out, again un called for and not very pro appearing, i too would have told him where to shove it, and if needed would have helped.

now that said, what was the briefing? 45 min dives? then yes you should have planned better, but mistakes happen, you learn from them, ignore some of the comments here from the self rightous so called instructors that are perfect cause they are full of it there is NO excuse for the attitude shown.

final comment before some of you are spouting off about 5 mins, being forced deco, well maybe your computers, mine i can set for 10-20 foot safety stop depths and from 2-10 mins in lenght since not everyone has a Suunto ( may be 8 mins ) so would help to know what computer and how it was set, not something we are likely to find out.

now please Name and shame the outfit so i know who not to dive with if they hire idiots.

 

[DevonDiver]

I've asked this earlier... but it was probably missed..

The OP had a rental computer. Was that computer 'zeroed' when you began diving with it?

If not, then the residual nitrogen loading on the algorythm from previous customers could easily have pushed him into a low NDL/deco scenario that was not anticipated by the DM or the diver...

 

[BoltSnap]

Hummm, the thread is now squeaky clean and sanitized. I can even smell the odor of Dittol.


Halemano,

You missed all the hugging, kissing and free love with fireworks all night last night (Quero was asleep on the job again).

 

[Blackwood]

I've asked this earlier... but it was probably missed..

The OP had a rental computer. Was that computer 'zeroed' when you began diving with it?

If not, then the residual nitrogen loading on the algorythm from previous customers could easily have pushed him into a low NDL/deco scenario that was not anticipated by the DM or the diver...

The DM said (per post #10) "I don't need a safety stop, why do you think you do?" I assume that question has to do not with the dive in question, but rather with the DM's dive history. It's unlikely that vacation divers running "recreational" profiles will come close to the inert gas loading of a DM who has been diving 6 days a week for the past year (or whatever). Of course, a dive professional should never make assumptions about the status of those under his supervision.

I agree, there are a number of things that could have affected the OP's loading, including previous dives (which haven't been mentioned), RNT from a non-zeroed computer, etc..

However, if you are briefed for a runtime-limited dive, your dive plan should have you surfacing at or before that limit. If the dive will have you hitting mandatory deco, cut short the bottom time (or the depth, if the site allows) such that that deco will be over at or before 45 minutes.

When we dive the deep wrecks out here, we don't tell the captain "ok, we're doing 30 minutes on the bottom," we tell him "ok, we'll be back in 65-70 minutes." If circumstances dictate we have to be back in 50 minutes, we'll adjust the dive plan. It's an important skill.

 

[BoltSnap]

I don't think that a DM should be telling his clients if they should or shouldn't need precautionary stop. It will be highly unintelligent for a DM to chastise or tell his divers not to do any type of stop. If nothing else, liability for the DM and his dive operation is even worse here should the client get injured.

 

[Blackwood]

I don't think that a DM should be telling his clients if they should or shouldn't need precautionary stop. It will be highly unintelligent for a DM to chastise or tell his divers not to do any type of stop. If nothing else, liability for the DM and his dive operation is even worse here should the client get injured.

It all goes back to the briefing. If they were instructed to surface in 45 minutes, their plan should have included whatever stops they'd make in that total. There may be reasons for such a limit beyond simply keeping up with the charter's schedule.

If they need a stop, they should absolutely be allowed to take it, but like I said above it means they've made a mistake or simply didn't follow instructions.

If none of this was briefed, all bets are off, however per Post #10, "These two dives where planned by the dive boat." Without getting into a discussion about the efficacy of allowing others to plan your dives for you, that suggests to me that the dives were briefed.

 

[BoltSnap]

Let me be more precise, a DM should NEVER come to any of his divers UNDERWATER to tell them to stop their precautionary stop and go up. Stuff always happens U/W and plans are not always followed 100%. They should be left to finish their stop, come up to the boat and then he can have a "discussion" with them about what did and didn't happen. All should be conducted in a professional manner still.

 

[Blackwood]

Let me be more precise, a DM should NEVER come to any of his divers UNDERWATER to tell them to stop their precautionary stop and go up. Stuff always happens U/W and plans are not always followed 100%. They should be left to finish their stop

I still say it depends. There could be a number of reasons that being out of the water is preferable to running a precautionary stop (current, boat traffic, animal life, injury, weather, etc.).

Given what we've been told about the briefing, I think the DM was within his rights to get pissed off when his abort signal was ignored.

I could hear the dive leader blowing his little noise maker and wave both hands at us. I pointed to my computer and gave him the level off signal. He angerly gave me two thumbs up"

"It is important to note that before this dive, during the briefing, he told everyone, "when I give you the signal to get out of the water you need to do it then, don't be pretending to look at your computer and ignore me." I couldn't believe he said that but didn't care.

There's a big difference between not following a dive plan 100% and completely disregarding briefed instructions.

All should be conducted in a professional manner still.

There was clearly a personality conflict between the OP and the dive leader. And yes, his professionalism should preclude cussing at his customers. But the OP is not without fault.

 

[DevonDiver]

He was within his rights. And when the divers refused for the second time, he should have used his initiative/common sense/training and decided to find out whythey refused.

At the very least, he could have come across and inspected their dive computers.... or used a slate/wetnotes, to resolve the situation.

We're are all assuming that the OP's dive computer was in deco.... but there are some dive computers that engage deco mode, for a mandatory stop, in the event of a fast ascent etc.

A DM shouldn't ever force diver to surface. Having clearly communicated his desire for them to surface, he should have investigated why they were reluctant/unable to do so.

If there was a genuine emergency and consequent recall, then he should have briefed those divers on the recall signal and/or had the ability and equipment (slate) to communicate that situation to them.

 

[Blackwood]

A DM shouldn't ever force diver to surface. Having clearly communicated his desire for them to surface, he should have investigated why they were reluctant/unable to do so.

I agree, and that didn't happen.

Within just a matter of seconds I could hear the dive leader blowing his little noise maker and wave both hands at us. I pointed to my computer and gave him the level off signal. He angerly gave me two thumbs up. I repeated my signals. Which just made him more anger. I looked at my buddy, who gave me a I am confused signal. I gave him the thumbs up and he returned with OK.

He got their attention and "angrily" signaled, whatever that means. Giving directions is part of a dive leader's job (which is in part why I avoid lead dives whenever possible).

He didn't force them to do anything; he got angry when his both his briefing and in-dive instructions were ignored. It was the OP and his buddy who made the decision to ascend.