Divers getting bent

[wolf eel]

Companies do and I through out numbers that may or may not represent that factual amount but at the start of the war CNN reported a figure of that size it was just a point of wealth gone to far. Oh you may want to look at the alta oil fields and see how much coin is being made a day. I am glad that the Gates invest so much to the world he has done a great job but what about all the others ? Again I did not mean to upset anybody it was just about cash flow and how it does not go around and how it could.
Your right top dog will allways win and the lesser should just get out of the way or take care of us.

Sorry about the money thing. The divers down south need to dive to feed themselves just like we do sooo unless you have the cash flow to pay the bill change it slowly or it will get all ucked up

 

[sharkmasterbc]

Wolf eel you must have really been screwed by the board ? I don't understand a few things which maybe you could clear up for me.
1. If someone complains 2 times about how the safety or first aid procedures at any job site in BC does the wcb not come to do an inspection of said workplace ?
2. so if an employer is forcing you to dive with no safety eqpt and beyond the limits of the profiles can you not make the anonimous call and report them to the board?
3. I agree that the WCB has brought in some silly regulations but I think they help to protect most of us in the workplace, if you have a serious claim they will take it seriously but if you knowingly went beyond what is deemed safe then do you really have a case ??? "the employer made me do it" may help your cause but don't you have the final choice on what you do and don't do.
4. Is there not a safe way to work the farms and make $, if every diver who worked on a farm followed the rules then would the employers not all expect the same amount of catch for a said amount of work.
5. I can see it being about how much food you put on the table everynight and how many kokanees you can afford but is that really worth risking your life for? am I missing something?
:bigun2:
Lets say that there is a warehouse and said wharehouse has some storage racking that falls down on an employee, the wcb hears about this and goes in to inspect said workplace...now they tell the employer that the storage racking needs to be bolted to the wall. The employer ignores them as this would cost a lot of $ and as a result the racking falls again and injures another employee. Normally the employer will get fined and if the employees made a claim for compensation they will be awarded $ (weather it is 60% of their normal wage or whatever, better than 0$ if there was no WCB). Now lets look at the farming workplace...lets say a diver gets bent and has to go to a chamber, he dies in the chamber, the WCB would now do an investigation of this accident and all involved. They employer would be questiones as would the other employees. If the other employees stated that the employer always tell them to ignore whatever regulations are in place that buisness may get shut down. If the employer was found to not have the proper safety equipment they would be fined and or shutdown until they complied with whatever regulation. I am not sure how the WCB classes farm diving on their scale of hazardous workplaces but I'm guessing not classed anywhere close to say....millwork.
:flame:

 

[Diver0001]

this is a good and noble idea, me thinks we would see the equipment turn up on ebay. Countries like Nicaragua have no interest in sustainable living unless 'sustainable' means they will have enough for this week.

People start thinking about the long term when they don't have to worry so much about the short term. It's not a matter of "interest" so much as a matter of "survival".

But I agree with you. We'd probably see the gear back on ebay.

R..

 

[derwoodwithasherwood]

Do people hurt themselves so they don't have to work ?

Well, I'm sure there is the odd case. After all, if people will hurt themselves working to make money then anything is possible. My understanding of the BC situation is a little different however. The stories I hear are that the BC WCB is going to great lengths to suggest injured workers are faking. Things like sending private eyes to secretly videotape people in their homes and present a few snippets as "evidence" that an injury is not as severe as claimed.

But given the situation, why would you agree to dive without the required safety equipment? Why would you not institute a work refusal and force compliance yourself? Are there other divers readily at hand, eager to take your job at the risk of violating safety standards? This was the case in construction for many years here in Ontario but finally workers smartened up and realized that if they stuck together the situation could be rectified. I don't want to derail this thread into a debate on unionism but surely, if all divers know what constitutes safe behaviour there must be a way to institute change. You indicate that accident rates have increased in the fish farming industry. Do the employers not face increased compensation rates as accident rates increase? Can they not be educated to realize they would save money by following safe practices?

As you can probably tell, I am not familiar with the fish farming industry and it's practices. The closest aquaculture feild I know of is urchin diving and it was to this that I aluded to earlier. In many ways there seem to be a number of parallels to the lobster diving described in the original post. Divers head out on board ship for days or weeks at a time and make repetitive dives, bringing the catch up every so often. It is within this branch of aquaculture that I have heard the complaints from divers. Chief among the complaints is that the DCIEM tables are too restrictive, cutting down their time in the water and "forcing" them to lie to the dive supervisor about depths so I assume there must be some level of compliance, or at least fear of enforcement.

When you have an accident they should do their job as we need them and they are paid to help the worker.

Once upon a time that was their job. Now it seems to be avoiding payments. But again I run dangerously close to derailing this thread so I'll leave that thought alone...

 

[wolf eel]

sharkmasterbc Wolf eel you must have really been screwed by the board ? I don't understand a few things which maybe you could clear up for me.
1. If someone complains 2 times about how the safety or first aid procedures at any job site in BC does the wcb not come to do an inspection of said workplace ?
2. so if an employer is forcing you to dive with no safety eqpt and beyond the limits of the profiles can you not make the anonimous call and report them to the board?
3. I agree that the WCB has brought in some silly regulations but I think they help to protect most of us in the workplace, if you have a serious claim they will take it seriously but if you knowingly went beyond what is deemed safe then do you really have a case ??? "the employer made me do it" may help your cause but don't you have the final choice on what you do and don't do.
4. Is there not a safe way to work the farms and make $, if every diver who worked on a farm followed the rules then would the employers not all expect the same amount of catch for a said amount of work.
5. I can see it being about how much food you put on the table everynight and how many kokanees you can afford but is that really worth risking your life for? am I missing something?

1 Yes I was screwed by them in the tune of 20k last yr of my own funds. And yes they may show up and look around then they leave. And you are at risk of losing your job.
2 If you Complain about the company you will be black listed and not get any more contracts you may be able to get compnay work but thats about it. You require reference.
3 If you could show me what they have done to make the work place a safer place by all means.
4 You do not catch anything you fix nets and collect morts the idea is if you are paid $18 a pen you need to do a certain amount of pens to make a buck
5 Any job you do has risk except maybe those who work in an office the risk of a farm is OK if you know how to dive.

If the employer was found to not have the proper safety equipment they would be fined and or shutdown until they complied with whatever regulation.

Not likley they never have.

I am not sure how the WCB classes farm diving on their scale of hazardous workplaces but I'm guessing not classed anywhere close to say....millwork.

Thats almost funny. A milworker should not get hurt he has the union to stand behind and literly can say NO I am not going to do that and the union will defend that person. But at what cost is the union.

 

[wolf eel]

derwoodwithasherwood Well, I'm sure there is the odd case. After all, if people will hurt themselves working to make money then anything is possible. My understanding of the BC situation is a little different however. The stories I hear are that the BC WCB is going to great lengths to suggest injured workers are faking. Things like sending private eyes to secretly videotape people in their homes and present a few snippets as "evidence" that an injury is not as severe as claimed.

I am one of those. They do everything they can to refuse payment or help.

But given the situation, why would you agree to dive without the required safety equipment? Why would you not institute a work refusal and force compliance yourself?

We all did have a safe working place untill them. They teach nonsense and do not even teach pen diving so what the ? The problem is the young dudes get a very little bit of information and then they know all. Kinda like the weekend diver.

Are there other divers readily at hand, eager to take your job at the risk of violating safety standards?

Yes

This was the case in construction for many years here in Ontario but finally workers smartened up and realized that if they stuck together the situation could be rectified. I don't want to derail this thread into a debate on unionism but surely, if all divers know what constitutes safe behaviour there must be a way to institute change.

The union is the last thing then all you get is old growth and the youth have not a chance.

You indicate that accident rates have increased in the fish farming industry. Do the employers not face increased compensation rates as accident rates increase? Can they not be educated to realize they would save money by following safe practices?

WCB is about making money not giving out fines. At the farm near where I live we I think had four accidents last summer alone. 1 was near fatal he did a last pen dive with less then 500psi and the tender said that was good. he was caught in the net and ran out of air and had to be assited to the surface passed out and then flowen to the chamber. Whos fault ? The divers but I think they had said the cascade was dry.

. Chief among the complaints is that the DCIEM tables are too restrictive, cutting down their time in the water and "forcing" them to lie to the dive supervisor about depths so I assume there must be some level of compliance, or at least fear of enforcement.

Urchin divers do not have the same style of tenders at all they are boat Captains thats it. Also they make more money by diving longer and breaking the limits. Kinda like truck drivers and the log book. Its in the best interest of the driver to keep on trucking and we all know what can happen.

Once upon a time that was their job. Now it seems to be avoiding payments.

Sadly that is the way it is today.
Maybe start a thread about work place insurance ?

 

[mxracer19]

While I agree that its nice to help people in need, this is exactly why the world doesnt like americans! americans are always sticking their noses in other peoples business. there's a movie that came out last summer, its titled "Team America: World police" Thats the US in a nutshell. do arab terrorists attack places like sweeden, or the netherlands, or places like mexico? HELL NO. thats because those countries stay out of other peoples affairs! If Isreal and Palastine want to have a war and attack each other, then fine. let them kill each other off. that should be strictly between them. We as americans formed this country to get out from under brittish oppression, we wanted to be free and we were tired of being told what to do, and now thats exactly what we do to half the world. We start all of these problems and then ***** and complain about what happens to us. Let people go to war, more air for the rest of the world, but dont drag me into it, because its none of my goddamn business.

 

[wolf eel]

Well Mxracer that is the boldest statment I have read. Do you ever feel like others are watching you ? Does your computer work OK :2ar15smil :shades: I had to laugh at that. But for real why are you so upset ?
All I ever really ment was their is enough money we just need to realize that it and dumb a s s religions are getting in the way of world order. After we realize this then maybe the lobster diver is diving with good gear and is being treated like a person and not just a provider of lobster. But that happens everywhere.

 

[mikerault]

Geesh, all of this from a simple suggestion. I am not going down to change their way of life, I am not going to force my ideas on them. I only want to offer them the equipment and training they need to save their lives. If they don't use the training, or sell the equipment, that is their choice.

Right now they have little or no choice, dive and make money or sit at home and eek out barely a subsistance life style. As the long form of the article shows, some give their money to their families, some spend it on drugs and *****s. That doesn't change the fact that they are not being provided at least the minimal equipment to dive safe if they choose to.

It looked like a win-win for many, give their old equipment for a tax write off, the divers get better equipment and in the long run, since they aren't dead, will earn more money.

I guess I never counted on politics, stupidity and greed getting in the way.

Mike

 

[newdiver-toronto]

Geesh, all of this from a simple suggestion. I am not going down to change their way of life, I am not going to force my ideas on them. I only want to offer them the equipment and training they need to save their lives. If they don't use the training, or sell the equipment, that is their choice.

Right now they have little or no choice, dive and make money or sit at home and eek out barely a subsistance life style. As the long form of the article shows, some give their money to their families, some spend it on drugs and *****s. That doesn't change the fact that they are not being provided at least the minimal equipment to dive safe if they choose to.

It looked like a win-win for many, give their old equipment for a tax write off, the divers get better equipment and in the long run, since they aren't dead, will earn more money.

I guess I never counted on politics, stupidity and greed getting in the way.

Mike

Don't give up; it was still a great idea.