Diver Training: Kick-up the intensity, or not?

[dmoore19]

I have not gone diving in 4-5' seas, swimming against a current nor do I wish to. Obviously the course is not for me.

 

[beanojones]

Ok this thread now sounds like little more than ego boosting "my conditions are worse than yours but I am better than everybody else so it is ok".

Kind of goes with the theme of the thread though, which is "my OW course is harder than yours so I make better divers"

The problem with classes like this is that they are teaching very little and testing a lot. There's not trick to taking people who can already do these things and 'teaching' them to dive. In fact there seems to be very litttle in the course description that is about teaching diving, although there is a bunch about testing swimming.

In the end, many people taught themselves to dive, and many still do. An instructor who makes students take more time to 'learn' to do something than it would take them to learn to do it by themselves is not actually accomplishing a positive.

An instructor who does not see his job as helping students reach their goals much more efficiently is not really getting what teaching is about; they are just acting as gatekeepers, keeping people away from stuff.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Some people need to be kept away from certain situations until they have been properly prepared for them. The CEO of our agency doesn't take OW students out until they have done gear remove and replace and swims while sharing air in blacked out masks. Because he, like me, is in an area where local conditions require those types of skills if you are going to dive regularly, Especially around other OW students whose buoyancy training was made to wait for a specialty course instead of in the OW class.

 

[BVickery]

At first glance it would seem hard, but the only issue I'd probably fail on the test is the damn legs only part (never really taught the right kick for it). I had to go through 1980s NAUI to originally get certified and only failed because of equipment (no hips to hold the weight belt and was at a time before gear was also made for taller people).

 

[Hickdive]

I think the key to diving at any level is to know your safe diving envelope and dive accordingly. The Navy and Commercial Divers I've worked with over the years are the most safety conscious people I've known (there's no such thing as a "gung-ho" Commercial Diver). "Jumping through hoops" as you put it, is one of the skill-sets that they must "master." (buoyancy).

The "gung-ho" types would be the recreational divers who, having completed a course such as yours, may well be tempted to press ahead with a dive in conditions that lesser mortals might think would lead to the pub rather than the sea.

As for jumping through hoops as a buoyancy-control exercise; I don't recall seeing any hoops on my BSAC Buoyancy and Trim Course (black grade) or my GUE-F (tech pass). I guess I must have been short-changed on both courses.

 

[Pullmyfinger]

What I took away from the intent of this class, as described in the OP, is a heavier emphasis on water skills.

I fail to see how having better water skills prior to (or incorporated into) OW dive training could be taken as a bad thing.
We all have seen examples of poorly trained divers. Just travel a bit, and you'll see plenty of examples.

When Instructors create training that goes back to basic water skills, people on the Boards love to criticize it. I didn't get the impressions that The OP was chest thumping at all.

My impression was that he believes that there does need to be a heavier emphasis on water skills, and is doing something about it with his type of classes. He clearly states that it isn't for everyone, and often refers students elsewhere. I would imagine that providing this type of training requires a big commitment from the Instructor.

There are too many Instructors that teach little more that how to suck on a regulator, watch a DVD and have students complete knowledge reviews.....and that's about it. This place is filled with them.

I am happy to see the pendulum swing the other way.

Many shops and instructors appear to have little interest in providing comprehensive training. It must be more profitable to teach the minimum for diving, and then divert them to gear sales. Maybe an Advanced class after that, and that's about it for most. At that point....the cow has been milked.

Why not? Somebody has to feed the machine. It just seems to be the way it is, based on my personal observation.

Instructors that post about offering a more skill based course, seem to get criticized on this forum.

I guess it goes against the grain of the typical shop culture.

As a diver who was originally trained by a fast class ------> funnel them into the show room type of dive shop, I think it's great that Instructors that offer courses like the OP's are out there.

It's no secret that there are numerous fans of the idea that divers don't actually need any real water skills....I'm happy to see that not everyone shares that viewpoint.

Cheers,
Mitch

---------- Post added May 14th, 2013 at 04:20 PM ----------

The "gung-ho" types would be the recreational divers who, having completed a course such as yours, may well be tempted to press ahead with a dive in conditions that lesser mortals might think would lead to the pub rather than the sea.

As for jumping through hoops as a buoyancy-control exercise; I don't recall seeing any hoops on my BSAC Buoyancy and Trim Course (black grade) or my GUE-F (tech pass). I guess I must have been short-changed on both courses.

I don't see the correlation. You believe students that pass a more stringent course are more likely to get themselves into trouble that those that complete a quicker course?
Better skills equates to poor decision making

Cheers,
Mitch

 

[beanojones]

I don't see the correlation. You believe students that pass a more stringent course are more likely to get themselves into trouble that those that complete a quicker course?

Better skills equates to poor decision making

Yes exactly that. First, the class as described does not train one to have better skills, it merely presents a series of hurdles the student has to clear to get to training. All that does is weed people out, or for those who clear the hurdles make them think they are better prepared to handle ocean surface swimming in the worst ocean conditions.

They are not. No one is.

A decent analogy is to look at car insurance rates and think about why they are the way they are.

Ask in an average room of young males for people to raise their hands if they are better than average drivers. Usually about 75% of the room will do so, because they mistake physical ability with safe driving. A room full of women will get 25% raising their hands. And yet as any insurance person will tell you, young males are horrendous drivers in terms of safety.

 

[DeepSeaDan]

The time taken on jumping through hoops would be much better spent on mastering the skills they do need which I think are sometimes approached as box ticks instead.

I'd wager that DCBC's students must be reasonably competent ( forget "MASTERY" - too subjective a term ) in their buoyancy to competently navigate the "hoop" course he's described. BTW DCBC, the program you conduct is very similar to my entry level NAUI program back in 1974. While not as physically demanding, we were required to doff n' don complete skin diving gear in 12 ft. of water ( including a wt. belt ), clear the mask on bottom & displace-clear the snorkel prior to surfacing ( all of it while being "in control" ) before being allowed to move on to scuba. We also had the blacked-out "bailout drill", station breathing & a 75' u/w swim, to name a few. In today's hurry-up world of insta-gratification, I fear that much effort translates into "too much effort."

Regards,
DSD

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Yes exactly that. First, the class as described does not train one to have better skills, it merely presents a series of hurdles the student has to clear to get to training. All that does is weed people out, or for those who clear the hurdles make them think they are better prepared to handle ocean surface swimming in the worst ocean conditions.

They are not. No one is.

A decent analogy is to look at car insurance rates and think about why they are the way they are.

Ask in an average room of young males for people to raise their hands if they are better than average drivers. Usually about 75% of the room will do so, because they mistake physical ability with safe driving. A room full of women will get 25% raising their hands. And yet as any insurance person will tell you, young males are horrendous drivers in terms of safety.

I am not sure how you can say that. The analogy is a poor one, Driving a car with power everything is NOT physically demanding!

Of course people who are stronger, faster, more physically fit and more confident are going to be better able to handle challenging sea conditions! It is a skill, but it may also require physical prowess. Have you dove in NS? My wife and I did the honeymoon there and did some diving in tough conditions. Sometimes we were leaping off rocks into the water for entries and then timing the exit to large swells.

Several times it was too rough for scuba, so we just freedove. Dealing with these kinds of conditions is challenging, and when the water 45 degrees (or less) and is a washing machine and you are in a wetsuit and you are diving from a rocky shore, you can't just inflate your BC and float and wait till the DM hauls you to the ladder. The cold water will quickly sap your strength.

Combine all these conditions from the local area and I think there is absolutely ZERO substitute for decent physical ability and watermanship. That was summer diving, wouldn't even want to guess what it is like for the other seasons.

It ain't much like drift diving in Cozumel.

 

[TMHeimer]

I'd wager that DCBC's students must be reasonably competent ( forget "MASTERY" - too subjective a term ) in their buoyancy to competently navigate the "hoop" course he's described. BTW DCBC, the program you conduct is very similar to my entry level NAUI program back in 1974. While not as physically demanding, we were required to doff n' don complete skin diving gear in 12 ft. of water ( including a wt. belt ), clear the mask on bottom & displace-clear the snorkel prior to surfacing ( all of it while being "in control" ) before being allowed to move on to scuba. We also had the blacked-out "bailout drill", station breathing & a 75' u/w swim, to name a few. In today's hurry-up world of insta-gratification, I fear that much effort translates into "too much effort."

Regards,
DSD

Please clarify the exercise--- Did you mean doff & don full scuba gear in 12'? If just mask, fins, snorkel, weight belt, then you were holding your breath the whole time while donning belt, fins, mask--clearing mask with whatever breath you were holding, then ascending with pretty empty lungs? "Clearing snorkel prior to surfacing"--how do you do that?--Oh, maybe you just mean clearing it while on the surface but with head underwater?
I'm not criticizing, just probably interpreting you wrong. I've done a similar excercise with full scuba equipment.


dumpsterDiver: Where were those rocks you jumped off in NS?