Diver Rescue

When should a diver be trained in "Basic" Rescue Techniques


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The only thing that's guaranteed, is that if the diver is not brought to the surface immediately, there is no chance at all.

Agreed. What I've tried to question already is whether a novice diver needs specific training in order to do that. IMHO, most divers could and would achieve this acceptably if their buddy needed raising.

Certainly, at a later stage when their comfort and capabilities underwater are more developed, I think it is a great idea to refine that common-sense skill. That is what the Rescue course is for.

Personally I believe in the buddy system and accept that my buddy is my responsibility. Perhaps you think this to be archaic, but that's how I was taught. How can I think less towards those divers I train?

I agree 100%

That's what I was attempting to communicate earlier. The OW course does provide all of the skills, procedures and guidance to ensure strong buddy skills. IF those buddy skills are sound, then it is highly unlikely that a diver would need dedicated rescue skills (panicked diver, unconsious diver etc).

The OW course contains advice and guidance that should prevent just about any emergency circumstance from occuring.

So.. the OW course does equip the diver to look after themselves..and their buddy. The rescue course goes further...and shows how to look after other people, where you were not present to prevent the incident in the first place. :)
 
Many divers that I see doing OW would rarely be in a situation where there was not assistance on the surface. Whether it be at the local sydney cove where seeing thirty divers on a Saturday is not rare to being on a boat on the GBR. Getting a diver from the bottom is the first step to getting them out of the water. If a diver has to get to the surface to alert help, and wait, this is costing serious time. Whereas if a diver can bring the person to the surface in the first place, help is just a shout away.

There is a case where a man left his wife and went to the surface to get help. She died/

I am very passionate about this because as I get older my own risk factor increases.
Now I can do everything in the world to go responsible for myself in making sure I stay as fit and safety conscious as ever, but at the end of the day, **** happens.
In the unlikely event that something was to go wrong, at a minimum I make sure the person I am diving with can get me to the surface since they are the ones who will be beside me when if things did go wrong.

Maybe the day will come when a coroner finally asks the question,
"you teach people to buddy dive yet you do not teach them to save each other, why?"
Which answer do you choose?
"they have to do the rescue course for that...."
"they have to pay extra to learn that skill"
I urge all instructors to think about how they could/would incorporate into an OW course, then just do it.
 
In some earlier posts the question was asked what kind of incident might occur in 60ft of water that rescue training might produce a good outcome. (One poster stated they had not read of any such incidents in the last five years) I had a quick look in the BSAC annual incident reports ( Annual Diving Incident Report - British Sub Aqua Club )and quickly found this from March 2009:
"A diver conducted a 37 min dive to a maximum depth of 20m with a 3 min stop at 6m. 3 hours later she dived to 19m. During this dive, at a depth of 16m, the dive leader noticed that she appeared unwell; he gave her the OK signal and she indicated she was not well. The dive leadernoticed that the troubled diver's eyes seemed to be closing and he brought her to the surface using a controlled bouyant lift. Their dive duration was 15min. At the surface the diver was recovered from the water. She was placed on oxygen. She was conscious at the surface but could not remember the last part of the dive. The emergency services were alerted and she was taken to hospital. Her only symptom was a severe headache. Once in hospital her condition deteriorated and she was taken to a recompression facility for treatment. Subsequent tests showed that this diver had a PFO."
I think that this episode shows the value of both rescue and good buddy skills.
 
...IMHO, most divers could and would achieve this acceptably if their buddy needed raising.

Perhaps, but before I can certify a diver they have to demonstrate that they can. If I didn't take this perspective, I couldn't teach through the agencies I do. Personally, I think that it's a reasonable requirement and takes little time.

IF those buddy skills are sound, then it is highly unlikely that a diver would need dedicated rescue skills (panicked diver, unconsious diver etc).

I'm sorry but "highly unlikely" isn't good enough for me. If people pay attention to their air management skills, no one would run out of air. Why do we teach how to share-air? Because people actually do run OOA (despite their buddy's best efforts).

As far as the "what can happen at 60' comment," the statistics books are full of people who have air embolisms at shallow depths. Why should a buddy know how to retrieve an unconsious diver? Because it happens all too often. I believe that an Instructor should teach for a worst case scenario, not an ideal one.
 
As a new diver, I honestly believe that the OW system is lacking in skills and rescue. (That does not include some amazing instructors that go out of the way to teach above and beyond the prerequisites). Let it be known I have only experienced Padi.

When better to overload the diver than when they are in a safe environment with a competent teacher observing and ready to react to any emergency? With the inherent danger in this sport nothing should be taken lightly and no one should be babied.
IMHO getting certified should not be easy and there should be a certain amount of people who do not pass with the option of retaking the tests for an abbreviated cost.
Get Wet!

If you actually learn and follow everything taught in an OW class, you may not be able to assist an every emergency, at the very least, you shouldn't be causing one and neither should your buddy.

And you can certainly assist in the most common emergencies, which generally involve running out of air, with the solution being "sharing air to the surface".

I've seen a number of actual emergencies with recreational divers over the years and done a number of actual rescues, and every single one could have been prevented by using nothing more than the skills and procedures taught in OW class.

flots.
 
I have been involved in two "Rescue" scenarios.
1) Diver had an equipment problem (tank came loose from BCD) and signaled for assistance. I tightened the tank band and we continued the dive.
2) Diver appeared from above me and took my primary reg. out of my mouth. No signal, or warning at all. I grabbed his harness, got my AAS. in my mouth and made sure he was not bolting for the surface. Turned out he was way over weighted and had not turned his air on before entering the water. I turned his air on at depth and he began using his own reg. About this time his buddies show up and escort him to the surface.

The first scenario was not a "rescue" as it was not particularly life threatening as neither diver panicked. However, if the diver who had lost the tank had panicked when things went "wrong" it could have gotten much uglier. This was one of the lessons hammered into us during my OW class. DON"T PANIC! Deal with the problem.

The second scenario was a little trickier but was also resolved with "Rescue Skills" learned during OW training.

Both scenarios were preventable at the surface before the dives actually took place if a complete buddy check had been done. Also taught in OW. My point is this. I believe the rescue skills taught at the OW level are adequate for a beginner diver. Most people with a little common sense can deal with the emergencies they are likely to run into at this level of diving with the skills taught.

I took the survey and expressed the opinion that rescue skills should be taught in OW classes. They should be, but they need to be basic and relative to the diving the student is going to be doing. Just my two cents.:D
 
Interesting thread ... for those who believe that rescue skills should be taught at the OW level, how long do you think an OW class should be, and how much would you be willing to pay for it?

I happen to teach for an agency that mandates some level of rescue skill be taught at every level ... starting with OW. We train our divers in the basics ... air share while surfacing, tired diver tows, and surfacing an unconscious diver. We do not teach panicked diver intervention. Why? I believe it is because in the real world, the risks of creating a second victim would be too high for an entry-level diver who is still working to achieve a degree of mastery and comfort with their basic skills.

Some of y'all seem to be expecting people to come out of OW class as somehow perfect divers. Doesn't happen that way ... at least not in the environment I teach, where OW divers are wearing 7mm wetsuits or drysuits, hood, gloves and 25-30 lbs of lead. Just learning reasonable buoyancy control in a typical cold-water environment is a challenge, and adding the safe management of an unconscious diver ... who is passive ... is daunting enough at that level. Expecting someone who's just getting comfortable with buoyancy control to manage an actively panicking diver is pretty unrealistic.

When I took my YMCA OW course in 2001 it was a fairly comprehensive program ... four weeks classroom, 16 hours of pool, and five dives. We covered panicked diver skills as part of that class ... but the instructor made it clear that simulating the skill in the pool and OW scenario wasn't anything like what would happen in the real world, and that intervening with someone who was panicked could be very dangerous. It wasn't until I had to deal with a real-world panicked diver that I found out what he meant. By then I was an instructor with over 1,000 dives ... and it was still touch-and-go to manage the situation without injury to either the panicked diver or to myself. I think to expect a new diver to manage that same situation is unrealistic ... it's just asking for two victims rather than one. And the first rule of rescue is "don't turn yourself into a second victim".

Classes are an artificial environment. They don't really teach you skills ... repetition and experience does that. Classes simply provide you the tools you need to learn them. In this respect, there is only so much you are going to learn in an OW class ... regardless of how long or comprehensive the class may be. Sure, more dives will provide you more opportunity for skills and repetition ... but will it really be enough? And how many dives would you be willing to put into your own entry-level class ... 12? ... 20? ... anything less than that isn't really going to give you an adequate foundation for developing your own basic skills to the point that you can perform them with any reasonable expectation of proficiency in a real-world rescue situation ... and even that won't be adequate in anything less than benign conditions and fairly predictable responses from the person you are trying to rescue ... and don't kid yourself, panicked divers are anything but predictable.

Yes, it's good to have an introduction to the skills ... but not if all you really take from it is a false sense of security. In the real world, what are the odds that an entry-level diver is going to effect a rescue successfully? Now balance that against the odds that the same diver will only make the situation worse by putting themselves in harm's way.

I teach for an agency that mandates some rescue skills in OW ... and I'm happy that's the case ... but at that level it's far more important to teach the concept of "self-rescue" ... which is to say "think about how to prevent putting yourself in a situation where rescue skills are needed".

I encourage my students to get some dives in fairly benign conditions ... then take a rescue class. My agency doesn't put prerequisites on that class once you've completed OW because they recognize that rescue skills are important. But get in some dives first. Not only does it help free up some mental "bandwidth" for learning new skills, but it also helps provide a context to understand what I mean when I explain to them the importance of self-rescue, of developing the awareness to recognize a developing situation, and of timely intervention to prevent the accident from happening in the first place.

In the real world, most accidents don't just happen ... there are recognizable signs leading up to it that can be remedied before it ever reaches the point where a rescue is necessary. This is far more important to teach than the mechanics of rescue itself.

The best way to deal with a panicked diver? Recognize and fix the source of the problem before it leads to panic. That's the key to a good rescue. You simply cannot do that unless you have enough awareness to recognize a developing situation, and adequate knowledge and skill to deal with it before it gets to a crisis stage. To expect that level of awareness, knowledge and skill from an entry-level diver isn't realistic. It's like asking someone who just completed their first skiing lesson to go join the ski patrol.

Diving is a craft ... skills and knowledge are the tools of the craft. You can teach someone how to use the tools at any time ... but learning how to use them effectively takes practice.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
Bob,
I agree with what you have said. Although at the same time I feel if students wish to take a longer course with confined rescue skills then that is great.
During OW at the least surfacing a passive diver should be on the to do list.
I feel that something is better than nothing.

What do you say to a student when they ask what do I do if I come across an unconscious diver?

If you tell them to go to the surface and alert help, how can anyone truly justify that.
& if you explain what they should do in raising the diver, without demonstrating it, how effective is that? How responsible is that more to the point?
Yes it takes buoyancy control, but I do not feel it would warrant an extra day in a course.
Maybe an extra hour or two.
This is one skill, out of many, but for me it is the most important one.
How many people practice this?
It is something we all hope we will never use, yet each hopes we will be good at it.
 
Bob,
I agree with what you have said. Although at the same time I feel if students wish to take a longer course with confined rescue skills then that is great.
During OW at the least surfacing a passive diver should be on the to do list.
I feel that something is better than nothing.

What do you say to a student when they ask what do I do if I come across an unconscious diver?

I teach for NAUI ... we do train our OW students to surface an unconscious diver from a minimum depth of 20 fsw.

What we don't do is any panicked diver scenarios ... for the reasons I described above.

If you tell them to go to the surface and alert help, how can anyone truly justify that.
& if you explain what they should do in raising the diver, without demonstrating it, how effective is that? How responsible is that more to the point?
Somewhat off-topic but this notion raises one of my pet peeves about mainstream training ... by pretty much all the agencies.

All of us ... no matter which agency we teach for ... tell our students that in an extreme emergency, drop your weights. The NAUI Scuba Diver manual even includes a picture of a woman standing on the bottom holding her weight belt off to the side as though she's going to drop it.

This is all well and good ... as far as it goes. But not a single agency I've ever been exposed to will demonstrate that skill, or expect their students to actually do it in OW.

Why?

Because buoyant ascents are dangerous, and they don't want the liability.

How responsible is that?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
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