Diver Rescue

[Eric Sedletzky]

They should be taught in OW - all of them. These skills used to be part of basic OW. There is no reason why they cannot all be taught-to-proficiency in OW

Sure there's a reason. So that they can make more money off you by selling you another course later.

 

[DCBC]

...what he never explains is "Was his rescue a result of a basic level, recreational dive?"

I have explained Peter; I was not in a recreational situation.

Early on TSandM asked -- What could go wrong on a RECREATIONAL DIVE with a max depth of 60 FSW that would cause unconsciousness AND that would result in any significant chance of rescue (as opposed to recovery)? Well, I'm still waiting for someone to come up with that scenario.

That said, to the best of my knowledge "Rescue Diver" is not a prerequisite with any agency for training in:

- using enriched-air nitrox?
- technical diving?
- diving to 130' on air?

Anywhere that O2 and Nitrogen could render a diver in need of rescue (OxTox, Narcosis) conscious or unconscious. Being able to take physical control and ascend with your buddy is a reasonable ability for any diver to have imo. Rescue of a paniced victim at the surface is another.

I didn't ask if underwater recovery of an unconscious victim and rescue of a panicky victim on the surface should be taught in an OW program; I asked when these should be taught?

Your reply to the question indicated that they shouldn't be taught at all. Not even in a rescue program. "Rescue isn't a required skill." It surprises me that a PADI Instructor would feel this way. Although I've asked for clarification, I have yet to hear why you feel rescue is not a required skill at any level?

 

[DCBC]

Perhaps we need to define exactly what we mean by 'basics'?

The "basics" were defined within the question: "At what point in a diver's training should they be able to rescue their buddy (unconsious diver at depth, panicky diver at the surface)? Do you feel that these skills should be part of the OW course? AOW? or should they wait until the diver is ready for Rescue Diver training?"
.

 

[DCBC]

...While it's true that I can't force my students to take the rescue class later on, it's equally true that I can't force them to keep their rescue skills current even if I introduced them in the OW class. All I can do is stress the importance of continuing their training, and hope that I've instilled in them a sense of good judgment and a desire to learn these skills before they ever need to use them.

Thanks for your input. I largely agree with what you are saying. Personally, I have a hard time issuing a card to say that a diver is certified to dive with a buddy independently and I'm aware that he hasn't been shown how to safely rescue him. Every person has their own opinion, but it appears from the response that the majority so far feel that rescue training should occur before AOW.

 

[DevonDiver]

Sure there's a reason. So that they can make more money off you by selling you another course later.

Why? You think there should be some sort of SCUBA 'hardship' fund?

PADI developed a model for scuba tuition that was modular. They break the training into various levels and elements. As I've said before, the OW course is the entry-level course. There are other courses following that, which can be selected by the individual diver according to their needs. That system actually saves your money because you only do the training that is relevant for your needs.

People can be a bit idiotic to think that breaking those courses into modular elements is some sort of rip-off. Dive shops charge for their courses based on the cost involved to run them. This is usually broken down as:

1) Cost element for materials - Manuals, tables etc.
2) Cost element for equipment - SCUBA gear depreciation, cylinder filling, compressor maintenance etc.
3) Cost element for Utilities - Water, Gas, Electricity for shop, pool heating etc.
4) Cost element for boat operations - gasoline, maintenance, depreciation.
5) Cost element for wages - instructor, dm, captain etc salaries/commission

These cost elements are normally distributed, to provide a costper dive. Thus, the major calculation in pricing any given course is the number of dives it contains.

So... a 4x Dive 'Entry-Level' OW Course might cost $400
a 4x Dive Rescue Course might cost $400
Total Cost for SCUBA and Rescue skills is $800

A 'comprehensive' OW Course, with Rescue skills, would still have 8 dives. So it would still cost $800.

The same.

 

[DevonDiver]

The "basics" were defined within the question: "At what point in a diver's training should they be able to rescue their buddy (unconsious diver at depth, panicky diver at the surface)? Do you feel that these skills should be part of the OW course? AOW? or should they wait until the diver is ready for Rescue Diver training?"
.

So...we are only talking about 'rescue' skills?... but you don't feel that, having conducted the rescue, the diver concerned should have any resucitation or life-support skills?? What would be the point of that?

 

[marinediva]

Great Thread,
Since I started instructing, (Padi) I initally had issues with teaching OW students to come to the surface
and alert help if finding an unconscious diver.

Now, that skill can be taught in OW.
As far as other rescue skills are concerned, I feel the option should be given to the student.
OW with confined Rescue Skills portion of a Rescue Course.

 

[marinediva]

double post:cool2:

 

[DCBC]

People can be a bit idiotic to think that breaking those courses into modular elements is some sort of rip-off. Dive shops charge for their courses based on the cost involved to run them. ...A 'comprehensive' OW Course, with Rescue skills, would still have 8 dives. So it would still cost $800 The same.

Not really. There is economy when you deal with one class with the same people than dealing with separate sets of independent classes undertaken at different times. Multiple certifications require separate individual certification fees. Not every training course requires a separate textbook and certification card. My course has twice the content and is available for half the cost.

It's not my intention to compare agencies or how individual instructors elect to run their program, rather than to focus on the skill-sets that people feel are required and ascertain their opinion of the best time to introduce these skills (or to refrain from introducing them).

 

[DCBC]

So...we are only talking about 'rescue' skills?... but you don't feel that, having conducted the rescue, the diver concerned should have any resucitation or life-support skills?? What would be the point of that?

Of course, this is the ideal situation. However failing that, there is a chance that emergency services, or someone else can perform this function. The only thing that's guaranteed, is that if the diver is not brought to the surface immediately, there is no chance at all.

Personally I believe in the buddy system and accept that my buddy is my responsibility. Perhaps you think this to be archaic, but that's how I was taught. How can I think less towards those divers I train?

I teach OW divers these skills as a reasonable place to start. I can't move them into another course and then into yet another before I teach what I believe to be basic skills. As an Instructor, that's my individual choice, it's not meant to be everyone elses.