Diver Indicted in 2003 GBR mishap

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I wonder if Australia could try him "in abstentia". That was done in the US in the famous case of the Philadelphia man who killed his girlfriend and fled to France decades ago (I believe PA Senator Specter was the DA at the time). He was convicted here while still living in France and just a few years ago they managed to get him back to the Us where he is now imprisoned. I can't remember the name of the man or the details of the case, i.e., how he was brought back to the US. I vaguely recall that he was duped into returning or snatched by US marchalls while in France. I know that France never recognized the trial outcome or extradited him, at least not for a very long time. Whether the US would recognize an in absentia trial in another country is questionable.
 
Ira Einhorn was tried in absentia, and Arlen Specter was his attorney (for the bail hearing, at least). In order to win his extradition from France, prosecutors had to agree to give him a new trial, at which he was convicted and sentenced to life imprisonment.
 
As of tomorrow (Monday) it is possible for a British person to be charged, tried, convicted and sentenced in England & Wales (don't know about Scotland) for certain offences carried out abroad where no other British national is involved. I only know so far that this applies to child sex offences, but once the principle has been established I see no reason why it shouldn't be extended. I believe it was prompted by Brits going to Thailand to have their way with kids and escaping justice even though it was known that they were guilty. No more.
 
:11:You are scaring me:11:I was just about to ask what the law was in the States with this. I believe there are several countries where their citizens can be charged for crimes commited outside their country. Since this is an act by a US citizen allegedly against a US citizen and a lot of the driving force seems to be from Tina's parents.... US citizens I have wondered why this isn't being tried there? I know access to the specific site is a problem but it also seems the witnesses are from other countries.... isn't the Doctor and American as well?
 
As of right now, one cannot be tried in the US for murder if the murder has taken place in another country, regardless if it involves another US citizen. In fact, there are extradition hearings that take place between states within the union using this very same concept domestically, so jurisdiction is an important point that will have to be dealt with before Gabe gets his day in court.

Add to that the fact that the US would have to subpoena witnesses (they don’t have the authority to do that, nor does the defense if these were issued from the US) and acquire evidence from Australia, this would make an already costly case that much more expensive.

No, I don’t really see this changing any time soon. The US authorities may choose to make the extradition process run smoothly so as to keep relations workable with the Aussie authorities, but that is about as far as it will go.

Regarding the prosecution of pedophiles committing crimes overseas, I believe this involves several governments, including Canada, Germany, the US, and the UK among others. The Bush Admin was pushing hard for cooperation with the Philippines when I was there. I learned quite a bit about this from the woman I was dating at the time who worked for UNCHR. She was for the idea of expanding this type of prosecution. I understand her position based on what she had me read. There are a lot of sick people out there. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe this international anti-pedophile legislation is also behind the sting ops run that have been targeting Internet child abuse in recent years, those ops that hit several people in several countries at the same time using the same evidence.

Cheers!
 
JC Lynes



I think you are absolutely correct in bringing this up. I think there must be hundreds and hundreds of other cases just like this that the defense can use to establish that different divers under duress make different decisions in the stress of the moment. PADI at least supports this to some degree, saying that the decision to take on "some personal risk" is crucial in the "stop and think" aspect of becoming a rescue diver. They go on to say that it is never a good idea to put oneself in danger in attempting a rescue and that oftentimes getting someone else to help is a better decision because it can insure that others are aware of what is going on.

I have no doubt that the defense will hammer this point home ad infinitum in the extradition hearing and ultimately the trial should that ever become needed, leaving the prosecutors with a hell of a task to overcome.

There are so many sources that that say divers need to write down what is happening when it happens. If Gabe didn’t do this, it could be argued that this was because his wife had just died. If others, the crew, DMs, etc, didn’t do this, then memory lapses would be considered par for the course (Gabe’s being only one of many), leaving his discrepancies in the interview as evidence of nothing more than the effects of trauma and worry about what had happened.

What we feel personally has nothing to do with what can be proven in court.

Cheers!

You are correct in how the defense will try to defend this issue, but you and the defense will miss the point the prosecution will make - and it will be an excellent point. Here is the issue - Tina and her parents believed that Watson was a rescue-certified diver with skills to help Tina in an emergency. It was Watson led them to believe that was true. In this police interview, Watson denied having ever been taught how to do any of the rescue skills involving helping another diver. Anyone who has ever been rescue-certified knows that is an absolute crock. Everyone can understand even a qualified diver who freaks out and goes to the surface in an emergency. But there is no reasonable way to understand his denial that he ever received the training in the first place. He is down-playing his knowledge so much at times that it sounds like he has no idea what it is like to even be underwater. I could make another complete issue out of that alone. Then Watson later said he was afraid people would think she is an idiot, giving a subliminal message that you should consider that Tina was wholly responsible for what happened - and he just really had to get that part off his chest. This is a common ploy of the guilty - suggest that someone else is at fault, but of course, they themselves would never think so. You need to understand each issue in its wholeness to understand his behavior. This is difficult because a single issue is weaved in-and-out through his entire testimony.
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WATSON: [regarding his rescue training] ..the only thing that we've that we ever did was ah done at like around twenty feet where basically we dumped our own gear and did you know the purging, hook up, let your air go and all that you know for yourself and that's what I was thinking of, that most of the training I've had is basically taking care of yourself, not you know had we there was nothing as far as taking care of somebody else..
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WATSON: ..could do um you know some of those things, there wasn’t there was nothing in our thing about how to get somebody, how to do any type of revival or anything from the bottom there was nothing about, other than controlled ascent you know sharing air ah there was nothing..

1.1 [Revival at the bottom is not possible because it involves rescue breathing and CPR, neither of which can be done underwater. The victim must be taken to the surface. This is common sense and this skill is heavily practiced in the rescue course.]
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WATSON: ..I was afraid they were going to come out an say stuff about her, you know saying she was an idiot or she had no idea what she was doing cause that’s, you know she did but just kind of at the tail end he said ‘we don’t feel that it’s diver related because it was near perfect diving conditions’..you know, and we may never know I don’t know but I, I just had to get that off my chest and.. cause we’re, you know, everybody been talking with us like you know like, would hate myself if I left not saying what I think I need to be said.

[He is trying to argue with someone who said it was not diver-related because he does want consideration that it was Tina's fault. The idea anyone would even think of calling Tina an idiot is unthinkable, most especially a first-time diver.]
 
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You are correct in how the defense will try to defend this issue, but you and the defense will miss the point the prosecution will make - and it will be an excellent point. Here is the issue - Tina and her parents believed that Watson was a rescue-certified diver with skills to help Tina in an emergency. It was Watson led them to believe that was true. In this police interview, Watson denied having ever been taught how to do any of the rescue skills involving helping another diver. Anyone who has ever been rescue-certified knows that is an absolute crock. Everyone can understand even a qualified diver who freaks out and goes to the surface in an emergency. But there is no reasonable way to understand his denial that he ever received the training in the first place. He is down-playing his knowledge so much at times that it sounds like he has no idea what it is like to even be underwater. I could make another complete issue out of that alone. Then Watson later said he was afraid people would think she is an idiot, giving a subliminal message that you should consider that Tina was wholly responsible for what happened - and he just really had to get that part off his chest. This is a common ploy of the guilty - suggest that someone else is at fault, but of course, they themselves would never think so. You need to understand each issue in its wholeness to understand his behavior. This is difficult because a single issue is weaved in-and-out through his entire testimony.

This is a very good point & I'll bet the instructor who taught them both would be willing to testify in the US & travel to Australia to testify as to Gabe's knowledge & understanding of the rescue curriculum. It also should be interesting to hear from people who have dove with him in the past, as to his abilities. These people could be easily subpoenaed to give testimony in the extradition hearing.

WATSON: ..could do um you know some of those things, there wasn’t there was nothing in our thing about how to get somebody, how to do any type of revival or anything from the bottom there was nothing about, other than controlled ascent you know sharing air ah there was nothing..

This stuck out as I read it the first time. In quite a few other instances he states there was nothing wrong with his wife, if we believe Tina's family he even went as far as to state that she "winked" at him, as she descended away from him. Why would he need to do any type of revival on someone who was just sinking? I think, if & when a jury gets to watch & listen to his interview, much more will come forth than we get from just reading the transcript.
 
In quite a few other instances he states there was nothing wrong with his wife, if we believe Tina's family he even went as far as to state that she "winked" at him, as she descended away from him. Why would he need to do any type of revival on someone who was just sinking?

Very good point. If she was conscious, looking at him, and winked at him while she was sinking as he went to get help, as was mentioned before, why mention revival? When I first read that "revival" statement, I did not take it literally because of Gabe's issues with the English language and wasn't sure about the context of that statement or it's relation to the time frame. However, if part of his decision to not pursue her AS she sank was that he did not know how to revive her, then he does seem to be admitting that he saw her unconscious, which doesn't seem to have been admitted before. His story seems to have been that she was fine when he left, which may be contradicted by the revival statement.
 
This is a very good point & I'll bet the instructor who taught them both would be willing to testify in the US & travel to Australia to testify as to Gabe's knowledge & understanding of the rescue curriculum. It also should be interesting to hear from people who have dove with him in the past, as to his abilities. These people could be easily subpoenaed to give testimony in the extradition hearing.

Indeed, both of these people did testify at the Coroner's inquiry. Thomas Jackson, who was Gabe Watson's certifying instructor said that he was shocked that Watson said he never received the training. Michael Moore is Gabe Watson's childhood friend and was certified in all three levels with Watson, gave testimony that they did receive training to rescue distressed and unconscious divers, but tried to soften the blow of the testimony by saying he didn't feel that meant he was really qualified. Whether or not Watson actually felt qualified is not the issue. Watson stating that he never received the proper training, but reassuring Tina that he was qualified IS the issue.

See: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/3676572-post2.html

for all the related testimony and sources for this issue.
 
This stuck out as I read it the first time. In quite a few other instances he states there was nothing wrong with his wife, if we believe Tina's family he even went as far as to state that she "winked" at him, as she descended away from him. Why would he need to do any type of revival on someone who was just sinking? I think, if & when a jury gets to watch & listen to his interview, much more will come forth than we get from just reading the transcript.

Tina's mother testifying that Watson told her over the phone that Tina winked at him while she was sinking would subject to Australia's hearsay law. Apparently, in accordance with this paragraph quoted below, hearsay evidence in penal law in Australia seems to favor the prosecution:

"55. In contrast to civil law (see below), the continental penal law of evidence is not regulated in penal matters. There are no special rules on the way evidence may be collected or what should qualify as evidence in court [20]. It is a logical consequence of the duty to search for the material truth handed over to a qualified and impartial judge. In penal matters the facts may be proven in any way, and the judge accepts any element provided it has been lawfully obtained and the accused has had an opportunity to discuss it in court. Hearsay is not as such deemed inadmissible..."

Source: E Law: Common v Continental
 
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