Diver drowns on Dive Boat Karen, Brooklyn, NY

[Henryville]

I do think written, or multimedia-based learning tools would be very, very useful to fledgling divers who tackle NE diving. Some of the divers that I see on shallow day boats in the NE aren't ready for the currents, limited visibility, variety of surface conditions, protocols and overall harshness that the Atlantic sometimes reaps on divers who are expecting something a tad more pleasureable.

Without commenting on this accident, since I dont know the experience or training of the victim, I wholeheartedly agree with this. When they say you are certified for diving in "similar or better conditions to those in which you were trained," they're serious. It goes both ways - cold, dark, rough North Atlantic is several quantum steps away from clear, warm Caribbean reef, but at the same time I've watched ripping South Florida Gulf Stream current - in clear, warm water - play hell with Northeast divers too.

We need to emphasize to divers that skills and protocols like lost buddy, safe ascent, and weight belt removal must be maintained with regular diving and practice, and that experience with conditions other than those in which they trained built slowly, step by step.

As for this accident, I feel very sorry for the victim and his family. I have been trying to get my own brother into diving and I would be devestated were something like this to happen to him.

 

[RonFrank]

Granted, I am only going on the “facts” stated in the original post, but come-on they all saw him on the surface and were shouting to him to remove his weight belt. It only takes 1 person to shout and 1 person to enter the water to provide assistance.

RU Rescue trained?

I don't know the facts, but I do know that jumping in the water without thinking to assist a paniced diver is the last thing one wants to do in a Rescue. If the diver was 150feet away, he could have sunk long before anyone could get to him even if they recklessly entered the water immediately.

The only thing worst than one death would be two which is what can happen to someone without a proper exposure and a floatation device in cold water.

I think you are jumping to conclusions here without knowing the facts, or assessing the situation. Those are two actions that Rescue training SHOULD teach one NOT to do.

 

[DandyDon]

I just received this in my email, from a person reading the thread who emailed me a DandyDon@ScubaBoard.com - which forwards to my everyday box.

hello don I was just on scuba board checking out what people are writing about the boat dive in Brooklyn well I am trying to register with scuba board to post a couple of things and I am having a problem.
well I am the cousin of the young man who is lost at sea his name is (I'm removing the name) and I was hoping you could help me get things straight with this there is a lot of talk of what people think happened and a lot of the telephone stories are wrong.
1st his brother who was his buddy did everything he was trained to do and did everything right as a buddy
2nd the captain knew both brothers experience cause he certified them both as a matter of fact all 3 brothers he certified years ago!!!
3rd he wasn't in the h2o 15 min before anyone did anything
there are a number of things could of happen to him.
and the fact that sealkie person who is using his brother as an example is wrong this boy is already so upset about this you can imagine!! he saw his brother drown he does not know exactly what happen!!!! instead of post hurtful stuff he needs to keep stupid comments to himself!!!!
ya know the family is reading everything people are writing and are thankful to all that are sympathetic but to those are not please have some consideration about how the family feels his wife is on here all the time to read what people are thinking and saying its sad and they don't need to hear anything neg. or what people think may have happen its all speculation and she's going nuts hearing it all. as far as the brother and captain again both did everything right it was a freak accident and that's all.
he has a wife and 2 kids. one which has cerebral palsy and is going to be 5 on Tuesday and just had major brain surgery. and a little girl that is 7 and hunted with her dad swam with him and did everything together!!!
he was a hard working person and a great father and husband and brother. this is what people should know not the what if stuff and the lies.
can you help me get this post I would appreciate this!
thank you
ang.

My reply...

DandyDon from SB here...
Got your mail. It'd be best if you could post this yourself. Can u not get registered? BTW, we do remove names of victims on SB to avoid upsetting loved ones as we discuss incidents, and we really mean no disrespect

Even tho we do not post names of victims, this reminds us that loved ones nonetheless find our discussions. While we want to learn from the accidents, we really should strive to be considerate of loved ones in case they still find out discussions.

My sympathies to the loved ones, especially since I now know one of them...

 

[PerroneFord]

Well, this clears up a number of things for me. Still leaves many questions unanwsered, but Im sorry for the families loss. Death often leaves a huge hole in families. Sounds like this one is not different in that regard.

Sometimes I am comforted that my death won't leave anyone in a poor position.

 

[lamont]

Couple things:

With a diver in an honest panic in the water jumping in without scuba gear on is putting yourself at risk. If the diver in a panic grabs you and drags you under you can drown. With scuba gear and a regulator you are considerably better off (your rescue course should have taught you several options that are only available to you with a regulator in your mouth). I think the fact that divers on the boat jumped in with only masks and fins and tried to rescue the victim speaks very highly of their bravery and what they were willing to do in order to try to save the victim and should really lay to rest any speculation that they didn't try to react fast enough -- I probably would have taken the time to fully gear up.

And when it comes to the non-ditchable weight discussion... I dive this way. I also don't run out of gas. The situation where my backgas is completely dry and I'm unconscious and overweighted on the surface will be extremely unlikely and I don't optimize for that. I'm more concerned that with a mandatory deco obligation that dropping weights (or having them slip off) will certainly get me hurt, which is the greater risk. This is different from the way that most recreational divers dive (and when diving recreationally with a single tank I do have an 8# weightbelt).

 

[LobstaMan]

IMHO, the purpose of posting in a forum like this is three-fold:
1) express our condolences for the deceased,
2) gather facts and discuss the incident w/ fellow divers, and
3) learn from the incident as much we can, so as not to make the same mistake(if he even made one) the deceased diver did.

Any speculation, finger-pointing and diver-bashing is counter productive to these 3 purposes. My sympathies and condolences to the diver's children, family and especially his brother. My brother is my primary dive partner and I know how distraught I would be if this happened to us. I would be inconsolable.....

LobstaMan

 

[DandyDon]

I thought hard about posting the cousin's message. If she had been able to register and post it herself - that would have been her business, and my preference. She was unable to register, tho - not surprising with the technical glitches we're having, or maybe she was just too upset? So I copied and pasted her email to me.

I am not criticizing Sealkie at all, just conveying a post from the family.

 

[scubadobadoo]

I am sure that the diver's family wouldn't mind us all learning from what happened if it kept us all safer in the end but the reality here is that we don't have any solid information about what happened from a first person POV. All we have is a small paragraph that leaves many questions. As I said before, we may never know here what really happened so the best thing that can be done is to ask yourself how you can prevent this from happening to you. Put the questions to yourself and not some poor guy who can no longer speak for himself. Make it about what you can do right and not what someone else did wrong. How can you prevent panic in yourself and in your fellow divers? This can be done respectfully. That said, I have read posts from many here in this thread and have never known any of the posters here to be mean on purpose. We just all need to remember that this isn't just a story or a training scenerio for some folks. It's reality.

 

[pir8]

All in all its just a sad situation to begin with.

 

[The Horn]

I have four brothers and a tragic accident like this is a terrible loss. I hope his family are able to work through this difficult time.

My wife has never been a fan of the woulda, coulda, shouda banter. From the sounds of things everyone did the best job they were able to do. I hope his brother or the Captain do not blam themselves for this accident.

Diving has risk, we train and inspect gear to minimize this risk, however, nature does not care and sometimes accidents happen: even when everything has been done correctly.

Hindsight is 20/20 they say and if we had it the world would certainly be a different place.