Diver drowns on Dive Boat Karen, Brooklyn, NY

[DandyDon]

That is indeed why I said it COULD be argued - I`m sort of on the fence about this one - While not necessary I think getting some information about the divers experience level is prudent. However - as I mentioned - the capt may have checked this and/or the buddy may be been an experienced diver and/or the diver himself may not have been entirely honest about his experience.

I agree as divers we are adults and responsible for ourselves - but a little help now and again is no bad thing

Don - In these cases the skipper is the trip organiser - it is his boat and he is promoting the trip so he does have a duty to at least check the diver is certified.

Ok, I've never dived there - as have many others reading have not. Didn't know, thanks for clarifying. I also don't know how deep this wreck is, how far from land it is, much at all. Being out of sight of land can increase anxiety for some; a 3 hour boat ride out really can.

Anyway, in the role of Trip Organizer, yes - s/he should confirm abilities to some extent, and could be held liable if this was not done, even with the waiver completed. We just do not know much about the abilities of the diver or buddy, tho - so we.

The "If seperated, search for one minute then surface" rule is a good one to reinforce here. Happened to me a few times on my Seattle trip.

Another one to reinforce here for readers looking to learn from this tradedy: "When things go bad, Get Positive." Ditch those weights on the sufrace and pop the Sausage if needed.

 

[Mr.X]

I`m involved in a fledgling club in New York and we are actively encourging local diving - this incident has prompted me to write something for the club aimed at divers new to local dives. Reminding them of the speration plan, the importance of using a wreck reel, the dangers of over weighting and the impotance of keeping mask on / reg in until your feet are both on the boat deck. Not to mention if you can`t stay on the surface get rid of the weights. I`m sure had any of these things been said to the diver before he got in the water it might have made a differance. People rarely revisit their basic open water texts and there is some damn good information in there thats worth re-reading.

Very sad incident - lets hope we can learn something and use it to avoid a similar issue in the future

I do think written, or multimedia-based learning tools would be very, very useful to fledgling divers who tackle NE diving. Some of the divers that I see on shallow day boats in the NE aren't ready for the currents, limited visibility, variety of surface conditions, protocols and overall harshness that the Atlantic sometimes reaps on divers who are expecting something a tad more pleasureable.

 

[victor]

I wear my BP crotch strap over my weight belt, going to take a while if I'm in this situation. Stop, breathe, think and act. Very sad, and my condolences to the family.

I hope you explain this to your buddies. Strikes me as unnecessary and potentially very dangerous.

I hear a lot about integrated weights, SS back plates with added weights, etc so no weight belt is needed. I suppose in these situations you are correctly weighted but what does a rescuer do if you are heavy and OOA.

Manual inflation of my own BC is easy but I have tried manual inflation of an unconscious divers BC and that was difficult. It is true they had made him heavy so it was very difficult to stay on or near the surface, breathe on my reg, and inflate his BC.

If it had been a DM off the back of the boat without a tank then I don’t think it would have been possible to hold the diver, stay on the surface to breath, and inflate the divers BC.

 

[CraigDiver]

I hear a lot about integrated weights, SS back plates with added weights, etc so no weight belt is needed. I suppose in these situations you are correctly weighted but what does a rescuer do if you are heavy and OOA.

Integrated weights are designed to be easily dumped usually by the pull on a handle or toggle of some sort. On my bcd Tiguillo Hover T52 even the trim weights are easily dumpable via a bright red plastic clip.

Weighted backplates do sound concerning though, unless i'm missing something?

As previous posters have stated, this should be practiced often so it hopefully it becomes an automatic reaction when and if near the surface and in trouble.

Craig Diver

 

[oly5050user]

It's called the Gulf Stream. Runs on a regular basis along there.

Sad loss to panic, when following traning would have worked so much better, it sounds. Also sounds like the crew and other divers did as well as prudently possible.

I have wondered why the NC wreck boats don't pull chase boats? Anyone know...?

'
not the gulf stream.. ..heavy tidal currents can be at that site though.. just past the lower harbor entrance to NYC

 

[Doubles]

Weighted backplates do sound concerning though, unless i'm missing something?
Craig Diver

Divers with backplates may also be diving steel tanks and may not have any ditchable weight. This is a situation where the gear would have to go. If the diver was in a drysuit, you could inflate that or the bc (drysuits may fill from an argon bottle, so even if the diver is OOA, they may still have gas for the drysuit). If the diver did not have a drysuit and/or you had to ditch the gear, you may have to cut it since a lot of backplate divers do not have quick releases and if your struggling to keep them at the surface, you would never be able to get them out of the gear. IF you do have to cut the gear check for a BUNGIED octo regulator, you dont want them being dragged down by the throat. The bungied octo should pull free with a simple tug. If they have a long hose, you SHOULD just be able to pull it up above their head to get it to clear.

I know of a situation here in S Florida where a DM and a boat capt
had to perform this exact proceedure. They were unfamiliar with technical rigs and struggeled with the long hose and bungied octo. Everyone survived, but the rescuers really had to struggle and could have easily become victims.

I dive this rig and always make sure to have a discussion with the DM on the boat as well as any "insta-buddies" I get, on how it works and how to get me out of it.

Even better, find a diver with a tech rig and practice with them. They should enjoy the opportunity.

I think rescue classes should include backplates and backplate setups as more divers seem to be migrating in that direction

 

[jbd]

Once on the surface he paniced and sank back down fast - which leads me to conclude he was very overweighted and that ditching his weight belt and/or inflating his BC had not occurred to him

This was my first thought---being overweighted. Maybe quite a bit.

Since you are involved with starting up a club lets look into this possibility a little deeper. If a diver is properly weighted and is neutrally bouyant at depth then he/she will be positively bouyant on the surface unless they release air from the BC and or drysuit if one is worn. Regardless of what caused this man to end up on the surface he should have been positively bouyant. The fact that he sank so quickly after surfacing is an indication he was well overweighted. The only things that come to mind are;
1.) Improper weighting to begin with
2.) Failure of the BC to hold air whether the guy was properly weighted or not
3.) Failure or flooding of a drysuit if he was wearing one.
4.) With a westsuit see 1 & 2.

My suggestion to you is to conduct weighting and bouyancy clinics as often as is feasible for the membership. When the club plans to do a dive insist that people do proper weighting checks before the trip. Do not use rules of thumb as the end all be all. Make sure adjustments are made prior to the dive trips.

 

[krazyman]

Read in one of the earlier post here that he stay below for another 15 mins after buddy separated, could it be because the buddy is his brother and he felt his responsibility to search for him longer?

Kinship affection can be very strong sometimes. So it may be wise for related buddies to have a clear understanding on what to do in emergencies.

 

[DandyDon]

Originally Posted by DandyDon
It's called the Gulf Stream. Runs on a regular basis along there.

Sad loss to panic, when following traning would have worked so much better, it sounds. Also sounds like the crew and other divers did as well as prudently possible.

I have wondered why the NC wreck boats don't pull chase boats? Anyone know...?

not the gulf stream.. ..heavy tidal currents can be at that site though.. just past the lower harbor entrance to NYC

Yeah, I misread and was posting about NC/North Carolina, rather than NYC/New York City - as you can see in my quote.

Tidal currents can be wicked around harbors, I'm sure. I experienced my first "funneled" tidal currents that I would call them in Puget Sound this month. Amazing what happens when a large volume of water leaves a confined area.

 

[Divmstr223]

In addition to panic, he may have been suffering from a heart attack or some other condition that futher distressed him or kept him from dropping his weights. Who knows. What I do know, having suffered a panic attack and bolting to the surface before in my earlier diving days, is that once the panic takes hold of you, you are lost to the world and listening and reason go out the door. It's almost impossible to reverse this process once it is full blown. It's easy for us to say what he should have done but he was probably a mental loss in the last few minutes. It's a feeling I hope to never experience again and have tried my hardest to train my brain to fight the impulse. The real question isn't what could he have done to stop panicking but rather what could have been done to prevent the start of the panic in the first place. Medical condition? Perhaps the start was the buddy seperation? Low viz? Animal sighting? Tired? Diving beyond ones experience? A ton of other things that come to mind but aren't worth mentioning out of respect to the diver and his family. We may never know.

Good post! and you are probably very right about this during his last moments.

RIP