Diver dies at Molokai on Maui dive boat

[CuzzA]

A family member of mine suffered cardiac arrest while on vacation back in 2008. He dropped in a restaurant and within one minute a patron nurse was providing CPR. An ambulance arrived 7 minutes later and brought him to the emergency room within 12 minutes from the moment he collapsed. Despite all of this, the lack of oxygen to his brain in that first minute was enough to leave him completely brain dead. A week later after every test was performed on the severity of the brain damage, we unfortunately had to make that terrible decision no one should every have to make.

 

[CuzzA]

The fishing boat could pick up the tech divers, couldn't it?

Maybe, maybe not. Most fishing vessels don't have dive ladders and/or dive platforms.

Think about what you keep pushing though.

You're the captain of a dive boat. You have one diver presumably dead. Now you want to leave a group of other divers in the hands of another fishing vessel, who may not be equipped to even recover the group of divers, in 10-12 foot seas, in one of the most dangerous channels in the region where the current "Molokai Express" can send you out to sea in an instant. For what? To knock off a half hour on the 2 hour return trip?

Like I said earlier. Given the situation. You wait and recover your divers. You do not abandon them and possibly create more victims. I'm sure the group of divers you're suggesting should have been left in the hopes an untrained fishing vessel will recover them while they aren't blowing bubbles would take serious issue with that suggestion. I know I would.

 

[sea_ledford]

The fishing boat could pick up the tech divers, couldn't it?

Maybe. Did they have a ladder? Did they have lines in the water? Did they have a radio? Was it a sport fish from Maui or a local boat from Molokai? Not enough information to know if the boat could have been an asset or not. As a captain I still wouldn't leave a diver in the water for an unknown person in an unknown boat to pick up. Don't make another victim.

Let's say there wasn't a diver in the water, and the boat is able to leave right away. 1.5 hours back to the dock another 30 minutes to the hospital either by ambulance or helo. Still 2 hours of CPR before hospital care. No way around that.

-Chris

 

[scubadada]

It would be great to get the other side of this story, obviously, that will not be happening

 

[boulderjohn]

In this case, the thread starts out with a critical review of a dive op that raises two primary concerns: the validity of the criticism (whether true or not)....

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

That's the problem. By this description, the thread started with blamestorming from the first post, and it was allowed through inattention to continue in that vein for quite some time until it became what it is. Posts that continue in that mode will be deleted.

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[mdb]

The mods have been careful with this thread. That is a good thing.

I do not think anyone here wants to blame a highly respected dive op. Lawyers will have enough time for that.

What can be learned is what to do in such a situation. How to improve procedures.

 

[Bob DBF]

Maybe the crew and staff new the victim was simply dead and an additional hour or so of CPR was futile.

I don't think that would work as a reason for the anyone to pronounce a victim dead and withhold assistance when, obviously, there was enough resources to continue CPR until trained medical personnel could make that call. May be the CPR procedures have changed since I last re-certified.

This will probably work itself out in court and end with a non disclosure agreement so I'm not expecting to learn what actually happened.



Bob

 

[boulderjohn]

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

I want to explain a couple of things about the "no blamestorming" rule.

The primary reason for it is that it interferes with the kind of analysis we really want here. As people are accused and as they are defended, it takes us away from a meaningful "what can we learn from this?" discussion. It is what is called in logic a "red herring."

There is a second reason. We have from time to time had to deal on ScubaBoard with cases in which people with an ax to grind against an individual or an operation try to harm that individual or operation through threads like this. We are dealing with one such thread right now in another forum, one in which a dive operator was maligned in a thread that went on for quite some time before we got wind of the fact that the anonymous OP was actually someone who had had a disagreement with that operation over something entirely unrelated and may have fabricated much or even most of the information in the thread in order to gain a measure of revenge. We do not want the A & I forum to be a place where people are tempted to do this.

Speaking generically, if someone feels that it is imperative to expose the shortcomings of an individual person or operation, this is not the place where it will be allowed to be done.

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[Kevrumbo]

They'll also have a 30 minute window for wheels up once they get the call. At least that is the SOP for the Gulf Coast. So you are still looking at 1 hour minimum to get there. With other active incidents going on they probably would have made a triage call to not spend 2-3 hours to go pick up a person that is unlikely to survive anyway.

-Chris

Only a physician in consultation with on-the-scene paramedic first responders can make "a triage call not to go pick up a person that is unlikely to survive anyway", and it has to be either obvious injuries not compatible with life -i.g. decapitation, incineration, decomposition etc- or post-mortem conditions of the body after a few hours such as lividity and rigor mortis [and after over two hours of CPR might be a "borderline" case here].

But once CPR is initiated by a layperson (in this case non-professional EFR personnel such as the boat crew, DM and other assisting dive passengers), it must continue up until a physician can declare the victim DOA.
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Standard Operating Procedure here in offshore Southern California is ETA 90 to 120 minutes for a USCG helicopter to deliver a dive casualty to the Catalina Island Recompression Chamber, at a near maximum sortie range of 240 nautical miles roundtrip to the Northern Channel Islands (San Miguel Island) from Coast Guard Air Station Los Angeles (LAX).

 

[Scott]

But once CPR is initiated by a layperson (in this case non-professional EFR personnel such as the boat crew, DM and other assisting dive passengers), it must continue up until a physician can declare the victim DOA.
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Or unless the persons or person are no longer physically able to continue.