Diver Deaths by Agency?

[Walter]

I dont know about most courses, but PADI teaches how to respond to emergencies and thus panic. Stop. Breath. Think. Act.

"Stop. Breathe. Think. Act." is a very small part of understanding the panic cycle. If that's all that's there, it's not nearly enough. It's not going to stop panic, certainly not without the skills that should be taught, but aren't.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

"Stop. Breathe. Think. Act." is a very small part of understanding the panic cycle. If that's all that's there, it's not nearly enough. It's not going to stop panic, certainly not without the skills that should be taught, but aren't.

That's always the crux, isn't it ... it's useless telling students what to do unless you also teach them how to do it ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[billy_b4c]

Just make something up like he did

Ya know....I was about to say something like "Well then I would be no better than he is." But it occured to me that I could make up something just horribly ridiculous to point out how ridiculous that statement was.

 

[GrandpaScuba]

I assume you mean divers deaths resulting from dive accidents?

So, how do you define a "dive accident"? If you are skiing and have a heart attack, no one calls it a skiing accident. But if you are diving and have a heart attack, they do call it a diving accident.

 

[GrandpaScuba]

"Stop. Breathe. Think. Act." is a very small part of understanding the panic cycle. If that's all that's there, it's not nearly enough. It's not going to stop panic, certainly not without the skills that should be taught, but aren't.

Of course, if you are out of air, the "Breathe" part is somewhat iffy.

 

[diver-dad]

.........a local dive "professional" stated, "You do know that (insert agency here) has had more diver deaths, don't you?" That's a pretty bold statement, and I'm looking for figures to substantiate it......

Folowing what Rakkis and others have said, allow me to get nerdy for a moment here ...

As pointed out above, the agency with the highest numbers of people who they've certified can be expected to have the highest numbers of incidents.

So ... Bare numbers are meaningless. To be anywhere near statistically significant, you need to "normalize" the numbers to be able to compare them......

Probably the easist way to do this, for example, is to divide [the number of PADI incidents] by [the total number of PADI divers]. Only after that can you compare it to NAUI as [total NAUI incidents] / [total NAUI divers], etc.

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IMHO, however, the information taught by any of the major agencies (PADI, NAUI, YMCA, etc) are so similar for the OW level divers, that the other variables that come with the temprament, condition, and intelligence of the individual divers, the ability of the instructors to TEACH, and on to the decisions to dive, the conditions for the dive, etc probably override any agency influences.

 

[Walter]

IMHO, however, the information taught by any of the major agencies (PADI, NAUI, YMCA, etc) are so similar for the OW level divers, that the other variables that come with the temprament, condition, and intelligence of the individual divers, the ability of the instructors to TEACH, and on to the decisions to dive, the conditions for the dive, etc probably override any agency influences.

Sounds like you haven't read the standards of PADI, NAUI and YMCA. I have. They are vastly different in their requirements.

 

[Mako Mark]

I would think that the recreational agencies would be pretty much the same. OTOH as far as percentage of certified divers that die diving, NACD and NSSCDS would have an unfair skew due to the nature of the dives, and they have some of the highest and most demanding standards of training.

I just dont think it would be a valid factor in accident analysis. Level of certification and dive experience would be far more meaningful.

 

[under water]

As agencies go, it could be that NASA has the highest death rate per trainee. But what does that signify anyway?
More technical agencies will probably have more 'adventurous' students. More popular agencies will have more vacation "shouldn't be diving yet" students.
Even if you had the data you wouldn't be any further along using it to make much of a statement about anything.
Now the DAN data about things like obesity is significant.
However. as has been said before. Note the BS meter of the person that made the assertion to you and ask them to reference their source.

 

[Walter]

I would think that the recreational agencies would be pretty much the same.

You would be mistaken.