Diver Death in Cayman

[mrlipis]

Wow, I heard about this accident last week, as this diver was from my local LDS. I haven't read all the posts but a couple of things should be pointed out. First red flag. There was no one left on the boat! This in itself is extremely unsafe. What if there was a fire, the boat looses it's mooring, the DM was hurt. This in itself put all of those divers at risk. 2nd red flag. This diver had two check out dives under his belt. Is there anyone who has defended this DM/instructor that would have made the same decision to take this guy on this dive? Do you remember what your SAC rate was on your 3rd dive? At a 100 ft, this guy is sucking some air out of his tank. Maybe some of you forget what it was like at that point in the learning curve but I know this, if it's me leading the dive, there is no fricking way I allow this diver do the dive. Hell, a good DM would have tried to sell him an advanced package. This has malfeasance written all over it.

Those of you pointing a finger at the original instructor, shame on you. Did the diver make a decision that cost him his life? Absolutely, but this was avoidable. Any decent Dm/Instructor should have said NO. My condolences to his friends and family.

 

[ScubaSteve]

There was no one left on the boat! This in itself is extremely unsafe.

So the DM was the captain?

 

[CDNScubaMoose]

Those of you pointing a finger at the original instructor, shame on you.

I don't think there is finger pointing going on with regards to the orignal instructor. There are questions being asked wether and if so, how strenuously (sp?) the risks of exceeding the limits of the training was. Seeing as you are from the same LDS - are you familar with the instructor in question and their teaching style on this subject? We are all trying to learn from this tragedy and I for one will say that even though I thought I was doing a good job of beating this point home to my students, I plan on stressing it even more so.

 

[fisheyeview]

That depends on who you brought along. If you take someone brand new to a range, I would expect that you would do your best to keep him from pointing the business end in bad directions. If you took a cop to a gun range, I'd figure he knows what to do and is on his own.

Terry

Like the Firearms Safety Instructor for one of the local police departments here in the Ft. Lauderdale area that accidently shot himself in the knee.

 

[fosterboxermom]

So the DM was the captain?

Yes the DM was also the Captain.

 

[ScubaSteve]

Yes the DM was also the Captain.

Interesting. I have heard of it happening but have never been witness to it anywhere. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[mrlipis]

So the DM was the captain?

Yeah that's right. How would you like to come up from your dive and not find a boat? This Reeks.

Seeing as you are from the same LDS - are you familar with the instructor in question and their teaching style on this subject? We are all trying to learn from this tragedy and I for one will say that even though I thought I was doing a good job of beating this point home to my students, I plan on stressing it even more so

I can assure you that the training is complete and the PADI OW book stresses this also. If you want to beat something into a student, beat this drum. An OW C card allows you to start the process of learning to dive. I know we want to be positive but I think a student needs to fully understand the learning curve and that certification doesn't make him/her a good diver and for that matter PADI needs to change the name of Advanced open water. For crying out loud a diver walks away from that thinking he/she is an advanced diver. The more I learn the more I find out how much I don't know.

Think about this for a minute. The average new diver has too many other things going on in his head than to check out the safety procedures on a boat. It takes some time to recognize quality vs this crap organization. I don't have to know what happened after the boat left the dock, if it left with a Captain/Dm/Instructor/spotter, they are crap. This was an accident waiting to happen.
Hell, even if this DM was able to rescue this diver he had no assistance from the boat.
A man put his trust in this dive shop and Captain/Dm/Instructor/spotter and it cost him his life.

 

[gcbryan]

This particular accident didn't happen because there was no one left on the boat and the boat was there after the dive. These are all things to consider when choosing a charter but what does it have to do with this accident?

I think most will agree that a diver that inexperienced shouldn't have been on that dive. The diver should have recognized it as did his girlfriend. The DM should as well. If the boat is just a water taxi and you know in advance where they are taking you maybe they don't feel the need or responsibility to screen the divers.

Certainly if they are attempting to place the divers at appropriate dive sites for their skills this wasn't a good choice. However, they probably do it all the time with new and experienced divers and most don't drop down to 300 fsw.

If you dive in a certain location with certain common customs you can't really complain only when something happens. If most other charters in the area behave differently then this is more of an issue than if you are just complaining about group diving in an area where it's prevalent. WIth group diving (DM lead) there should be buddy pairs and therefore it's the buddy who it there to watch and look after the other diver, not a DM leading a large group. Even then you are still responsible for yourself especially if you have no experience with the new buddy.

Vacation diving is always an accident waiting to happen therefore the diver always has to be responsible for him/herself.

Most of the responsibility was with the diver as it always will be. That's not to say that the DM did an exemplary job.

The victim in this case had more going for him than many and it still did no good because ultimately you have to be responsible for yourself. He was in the water with his girlfriend and other friend (OP). This is two more people in the water with him that he knew than many vacationing divers have. If they couldn't see him or stop him how is a DM leading a large group going to?

 

[rsldonk]

Look, I know you aren't going to be satisfied until everyone here agrees with you that the DM and Diver's Down in Cayman killed your friend and that your friend had no responsibility himself. Sorry, but we've all been diving before and know that's just not the case. If you want to prove that the dive op killed him, fine, there are lawyers and courts for that. That still does not mean that it's 100% true.

Yes, I certainly agree that the way things were run was irresponsible at best. This is certainly not a company I would consider diving with in the future. That said, I still fail to see how your friend ended up at the depth his computer showed when you yourself mentioned that the bottom was only 140'.

If you knew things were unsafe, why did you get in the water?

 

[fosterboxermom]

So the DM was the captain?

Look, I know you aren't going to be satisfied until everyone here agrees with you that the DM and Diver's Down in Cayman killed your friend and that your friend had no responsibility himself. Sorry, but we've all been diving before and know that's just not the case. If you want to prove that the dive op killed him, fine, there are lawyers and courts for that. That still does not mean that it's 100% true.

Yes, I certainly agree that the way things were run was irresponsible at best. This is certainly not a company I would consider diving with in the future. That said, I still fail to see how your friend ended up at the depth his computer showed when you yourself mentioned that the bottom was only 140'.

If you knew things were unsafe, why did you get in the water?

I have a completely different view of the situation than when I started this thread. I apologized for that a long time ago Sorry you missed that post. I was asking a question about children and the responsibility they should have. Is it the same as adults or is it different? This question has nothing to do with my friend.