Diver Death in Cayman

[JCAT]

fosterboxermom wrote

Just a couple of facts.
1. He didn't drown
2. He had all his own gear and it was in perfect working order. Brand new.

So what is being said here is that very little water was found in the divers lungs?

 

[pilot fish]

DM is GUIDE ONLY, not there for YOUR SAFETY

 

[Cindy_K]

DM is GUIDE ONLY, not there for YOUR SAFETY

Absolutely concur ~ and yes indeed, tip accordingly. If you tie service to moolah, then at least theoretically, those offering greater service and collecting greater revenue, should cull the herd, as it were.
Cindy

 

[spoolin01]

We must non-judgmentally and without emotion (as much as possible) - review the incident in the same way that an aircraft incident is reviewed.... This has a direct parallel to diving. ....... In a typical scenario (lets assume that this pilot has 40 hours logged, so they are a new VFR pilot), The aircraft is a rental, (being flown out of an unfamiliar airport) perhaps the first thing that occurred, was that the pilot took off in degrading conditions ....
Cindy

I applaud your sober reminder about the point of dissecting this event (and dragging the OP through the wringer).

I do think a better analogy would be parachute jumping, rather than renting a plane, not to lose your important point about considering the spectrum of factors that resulted in the accident.

 

[spoolin01]

Remind me to never go shooting with you, ever.

I rather thought the point was I was reminding you not to open a boat dive business.

I don't need someone to shoot with, unless I'm taken somewhere I've never been before, where shooting could mean the difference between life and death. I'd like to think I could trust the one who took me there to help out with things he would have learned already that I might not have. If I was there because I'd hired him, I'd expect it as a matter of the contract.

 

[Cindy_K]

"Much - MUCH - more worrying is the prevalent view on this board that newbs are alone. Tough ****, **** off, work it out yourself."

Very nice attitude....... "Newb's" seem to be viewed with disdain and disgust. Well, I guess flying is (sadly) different than diving afterall. This is equivalent in flying to seeing a new pilot auger in and saying tough cr*p! shoulda worked out that cross wind for themself. Thanks for the bitter taste in my mouth, really appreciate knowing how much people new to the sport are valued. Ugh.

 

[Dtaine]

I rather thought the point was I was reminding you not to open a boat dive business.

I'm not even interested in doing so.

I don't need someone to shoot with, unless I'm taken somewhere I've never been before, where shooting could mean the difference between life and death. I'd like to think I could trust the one who took me there to help out with things he would have learned already that I might not have. If I was there because I'd hired him, I'd expect it as a matter of the contract.

That still doesn't mean I could stop you from shooting yourself in the foot if you're sufficiently talented.

 

[Dtaine]

Very nice attitude....... "Newb's" seem to be viewed with disdain and disgust. Well, I guess flying is (sadly) different than diving afterall. This is equivalent in flying to seeing a new pilot auger in and saying tough cr*p! shoulda worked out that cross wind for themself. Thanks for the bitter taste in my mouth, really appreciate knowing how much people new to the sport are valued. Ugh.

Actually, most of us are quite willing to help and advise new and newer divers than ourselves.

That doesn't mean we're going to bend over backwards to blame someone else for their mistakes.

 

[spoolin01]

That still doesn't mean I could stop you from shooting yourself in the foot if you're sufficiently talented.

Nothing says stupid like a smoking hole in your foot!

Reminds me of a world-class runner on a track scholarship I met as a sophomore in college. The summer before that second year he was out in the LA desert practicing quick draw with his black powder pistol. Draw, point, fan... draw, point, fan... draw, fan.... DAMN! He still managed to set a few records.

 

[rsldonk]

"Much - MUCH - more worrying is the prevalent view on this board that newbs are alone. Tough ****, **** off, work it out yourself."

Very nice attitude....... "Newb's" seem to be viewed with disdain and disgust. Well, I guess flying is (sadly) different than diving afterall. This is equivalent in flying to seeing a new pilot auger in and saying tough cr*p! shoulda worked out that cross wind for themself. Thanks for the bitter taste in my mouth, really appreciate knowing how much people new to the sport are valued. Ugh.

It's not that newbs are on their own, it's that ultimately, in diving as in about everything else, you are responsible for your own safety. That doesn't mean that when possible, people won't go out of their way to help you, they will. But if you do something incredibly stupid, there's a good chance that even if you are diving with the best diver on earth, there is little they will be able to do to save you from yourself.

That's what the point is. While the DM in this case certainly did a lot of stupid things, ultimately, nobody had to follow him. Yes this should not happen, but it's not just the DM's responsibility to ensure you safety, it's ultimately your own too. The DM certainly violated lots of standards, but regardless, people followed him.

I can certainly understand why you have a bad taste in your mouth about the dive industry, but I also think you really don't understand the realities here. PADI and all the other certification agencies exist to make money. They have standards and regulations not to prevent someone from doing something stupid but to protect themselves when someone does.

I am honestly grateful for my instructor because he didn't try to blow smoke up my ass about safety. He made sure we all knew that the laws of physics that govern diving are absolute and don't like to be played with. Diving can be dangerous, but it's really only as dangerous as we choose to make it.