Diver Death in Cayman

[Cindy_K]

DTaine;
Nor should you bend over backwards to deflect blame for another's mistakes - again using flying which is my world, please pardon my constantly going back to it (slipping the surly bonds and all that jazz) If I got into an aircraft or a situation that was above my training and skills and I made a smoking divot or flew into a cloud with a rock in it, then boo hoo for me - but if I asked someone about a particular obstacle that maybe wasn't on the Jepp chart, and they said p*ss off, find out for yourself, I would be posthumously really ticked off. Again perhaps because I see no difference between flying and diving, I would not get into a situation above my ability to extricate myself from - I don't fly into conditions I'm not comfortable with and dive in the same way. But I do and would rely on those with more experience to be willing to offer advice to provide lessons learned, and learn from their wise sage and salty wisdom. So far no one has told me get out of their face because I'm asking a bunch of questions that perhaps aren't in the PADI course (and I do ask questions whenever I can). I ask as a matter of respect for the person and their knowledge, and knowing that I can learn.

If a new pilot asks me a question, or 12 questions, or 120 questions, I will bend over backwards to help them. But that has nothing to do with assigning blame. In the end, the person in the left seat is the Pilot in Command, responsible for them self and anyone else in the aircraft - and in diving, you are the Pilot in Command of your very own tiny submarine shaped -body. That simple fact should make the situation crystal clear, once fully realized and internalized.

 

[gcbryan]

I'm also guessing that the DM and dive center are not entirely as portrayed in this thread if only because they aren't represented.

 

[mrlipis]

If a dive shop is responsible for checking someones OW card why aren't they responsible for checking for an AOW card? If they aren't responsible for checking the AOW, why have the certification? Why does PADI set limitations on depth with a OW card? This diver had no business doing the dive and the DM/Instructor/Captain/Spotter had no business letting him do the dive.

Pilotfish: If you were this DM, would you have allowed him to do the dive?

 

[pilot fish]

Newbs? WE are not going to chase after :THEM:? What are YOU? Aren't you also a relative newb to diving? Do you have more dive experience than you've posted in your profile?

New divers with less than 49 dives sounding like old salts and making :expert: analysis of dive accidents and reminding everyone of diver self responsibilty, is making me reach for the Emitrol. I have 250 dives and still don't feel qualified to pontificate. Offer an pinion:? yeah. But let us get real here and stop sounding like Neptune risen from the foam.

Wow, just wow; I think this is representative of how the idea of personal responsibility has really been shattered these days. This guy was 58, not a child, he was certified to standards, and given the sloping bottom at the site, apparently had to put some effort into getting to 346 feet.

People like me are actually quite willing to work with others, we just expect everyone to take responsibility for their own actions. "Newbs" aren't alone, but we're also not going to chase after them if they go to 11 and a half atmospheres on a single tank.
In response to the last of your quotes above, I'm sorry, but "newbs" are still responsible for basic aspects of their safety, such as operating a BC and watching their depth and air consumption.

Remind me to never go shooting with you, ever.

 

[letterboy]

because we all know peoples profiles on the internets never tell falsehoods. . .

 

[pilot fish]

New divers are viewed with disdan in this thread when they make newbie mistakes, or suffer a fatality. A lot of people forget what it was like when they were new to diving, I presume

Very nice attitude....... "Newb's" seem to be viewed with disdain and disgust. Well, I guess flying is (sadly) different than diving afterall. This is equivalent in flying to seeing a new pilot auger in and saying tough cr*p! shoulda worked out that cross wind for themself. Thanks for the bitter taste in my mouth, really appreciate knowing how much people new to the sport are valued. Ugh.

 

[pilot fish]

There you go again. Aren't YOU new to diving as well? YOU are still getting advice, still learning, honing your skills so how are you able to GIVE advice and impart dive wisdom ?

Actually, most of us are quite willing to help and advise new and newer divers than ourselves.

That doesn't mean we're going to bend over backwards to blame someone else for their mistakes.

 

[pilot fish]

Absolutely not. I would have taken that whole lot to a different dive site with a hard bottom of about 70 ft and kept EVERYONE together in ONE GROUP.

If a dive shop is responsible for checking someones OW card why aren't they responsible for checking for an AOW card? If they aren't responsible for checking the AOW, why have the certification? Why does PADI set limitations on depth with a OW card? This diver had no business doing the dive and the DM/Instructor/Captain/Spotter had no business letting him do the dive.

Pilotfish: If you were this DM, would you have allowed him to do the dive?

 

[mrlipis]

Pilot fish, you haven't answered my question, not that you have to, but I am curious to your response. #663

Chase someone to 346 ft? No I don't think so. Keep an eye on your buddy who has TWO check out dives under his belt? Yeah, I think so. This DM was suppose to be his buddy. We don't even know when they got separated.

 

[Byte Me]

Newbs? WE are not going to chase after :THEM:? What are YOU? Aren't you also a relative newb to diving? Do you have more dive experience than you've posted in your profile?

New divers with less than 49 dives sounding like old salts and making :expert: analysis of dive accidents and reminding everyone of diver self responsibilty, is making me reach for the Emitrol. I have 250 dives and still don't feel qualified to pontificate. Offer an pinion:? yeah. But let us get real here and stop sounding like Neptune risen from the foam.

On your high horse again to pick fights huh? So in your "opinion" when does a diver get qualified to pontificate? When they have more dives than you? When YOU decide?

Irrespective of diving skill or experience (which by the way are different) some people are more alert and attentive than others while underwater. I read what Dtaine wrote as THEIR OPINION they would be willing to assist if they saw something going on but that they aren't responsible for everyone on the dive.

Your over the top sensationalism has gone from annoying to humorous. "Neptune risen from the foam" - sounds like you read that in a comic book!