Diver Death in Cayman

[Web Monkey]

OK about the "Wall"

The "Wall" as everyone is calling it and I might have called it a "Wall" as well in my previous posts, I don't know and I am not going back 500 and something posts to see, was not a "Wall" it was a sloping bottom that kept sloping in depth down and down. So it was not like a "Wall" you would descend to and dive horizontally and see an abyss if you looked down like I would call a "Wall". There was a solid bottom from where I was looking at all times, mostly sandy with reef out crops that you could swim through. Pam and I were above them at 60ft. The bottom was about 140ft. were we were diving.

Thanks for the clarification. That makes a big difference.

While 140' is way too deep for a new diver, it does mean that he had to actually work at it to get out of range of the DM and into the 300'+ range, which would seem to make things more his fault and less the DM's fault.

There's a huge difference between "falling off a cliff" and "falling off a cliff, moving over the the next one and doing it again" It would be really interesting to see his computer log.

OTOH, it puts more of the blame back on the his original instructor who apparently needed to stress "Safe diving practices" a bit more.

Terry

 

[fosterboxermom]

I was certain I saw somebody claim earlier in the thread that the deceased diver and the DM were "buddied" up together. It would be good if they could chime in here and fill in what they meant by "buddied up" if there were no buddies assigned (or checks done). Having never dove in Cayman, I have to ask if this is normal (I mean to not pair people up). I have heard of that happening here in North America but most places I have gone, they at least make sure somebody is with someone else. Just curious.

Steve,

I called PADI and spoke to the woman who is doing the investigation (not sure if I should be saying this but I think it is in one of my previous posts) and asked her about a DM taking a group and not budding up people and she told me that it is not unusual for a DM to do that. Her words exactly!

 

[Dtaine]

OTOH, it puts more of the blame back on the his original instructor who apparently needed to stress "Safe diving practices" a bit more.

Right, because his original instructor should have known he might just take a trip down to the abyss.

 

[Cave Bum]

My husband has the same experience as I have over 200 dives, however, he does get a little more anxious than I do sometimes ( I am completely comfortable in any condition where he is not) I think that is because I am a mouth breather and he is a nose breather. During the dive he came up to about 80 ft because he was feeling a little uncomfortable at 100 ft and having a hard time breathing, he just wanted to get control of his breathing which he did and then he descended back down to the 100 ft with the rest of the group...

Slightly off topic, this is sometimes, most often, caused by a CO2 buildup and is linked to overbreathing your regulator. Women usually have slower metabolisms, so this effects them less then men (and usually makes them better divers). CO2 is the 'triger' that makes us take a breath. An excess amount of CO2 causes a reaction in the Hypothalamus called 'fight or flight'. If that's what caused the incident, your husband did exactly the right thing, he stopped and got his breathing under control.

This is one of the things the industry usually mis-represents as nitrogen narcoses. It's a lesson we should all take to heart!

Be safe and have fun in the water! Bruce

 

[fosterboxermom]

Thanks for the clarification. That makes a big difference.

While 140' is way too deep for a new diver, it does mean that he had to actually work at it to get out of range of the DM and into the 300'+ range, which would seem to make things more his fault and less the DM's fault.

There's a huge difference between "falling off a cliff" and "falling off a cliff, moving over the the next one and doing it again" It would be really interesting to see his computer log.

OTOH, it puts more of the blame back on the his original instructor who apparently needed to stress "Safe diving practices" a bit more.

Terry

Terry,

The DM said the bottom was at 140 ft. Interesting enough my husband had rented gear and there wasno max depth indicater needle on his guage. He did stay with the group and he feels he didn't go below 100 ft but he doesn't know. I think that is pretty shoddy for a dive op to give out gear that doesn't have that feature. And the only reason he didn't have his own gear was because he was working in the Cayman's and was not going to be diving I convinced him to do a dive with me and just rent gear for that day.

I have the computer log from Brendan's computer but again Pam doesn't want that info given out. I am sorry.

 

[letterboy]

I have the computer log from Brendan's computer but again Pam doesn't want that info given out. I am sorry.

now thats just a tease. . .

 

[Web Monkey]

Right, because his original instructor should have known he might just take a trip down to the abyss.

His instructor should have taught him where his training allows him to dive and explained why he shouldn't be diving past the end of the dive table.

Anybody can fall off a cliff due to equipment malfunction or poor training. Doing it twice requires actual concious effort.

OTOH, if he was taught this stuff and taken on a dive with a hard bottom that's more or less within in recreational depths, and still managed to go to 300'+ and get killed, it's looking much more like it's his own fault and Darwin is still alive and kicking.

Terry

 

[fosterboxermom]

now thats just a tease. . .

Again, as I said I will give information that I am privy to and able to give out per the immediate family and Pam (finance'). That information I do not have permission to give out. There really isn't a whole lot to it except for the fact he went to 346 ft.

 

[letterboy]

Again, as I said I will give information that I am privy to and able to give out per the immediate family and Pam (finance'). That information I do not have permission to give out. There really isn't a whole lot to it except for the fact he went to 346 ft.

I am not saying you should, you are doing much more then others would have done by posting here to correct incorrect facts.

 

[Web Monkey]

Steve,

I called PADI and spoke to the woman who is doing the investigation (not sure if I should be saying this but I think it is in one of my previous posts) and asked her about a DM taking a group and not budding up people and she told me that it is not unusual for a DM to do that. Her words exactly!

Mob Dives (DM lead group dives) are very common all over the Caribbean and maybe other parts of the world too. They're not really safe as designed because the DM really has no idea what's going on 500' behind him and the divers are diving more-or-less solo, which they haven't been trained or equipped for.

However, this is another one of those "Just because they let/tell you to do it, doesn't mean it's safe" moments. A Mob Dive can easily be quite safe if the divers are properly trained and pair themselves up with a specific capable buddy.

Terry