Diver Death in Cayman

[pilot fish]

No. Yes. Shortly. Can't say at the moment.

Because everyone is giving the Op **** and it's unfair. They are one person and we are many. Also, a person died that should not have and it is clearly NOT ALL his fault.:depressed:

Were you there? Do you know anyone who was, other than through this thread? Are you in possession of this video? How is it that you presume to know who the buddies were (and weren't) on this particular charter?

One thing I don't get about you, PF, is why you seem to have this underlying need to have a dog in this fight.

 

[pilot fish]

This is how I see it: a person is dead that should not have died. He went to this dive op and paid his money to dive. He was an eager new diver. The dive op did not give him the level of care they should have, and that he paid for, and now he is dead and will not marry the girl of his dreams. THAT SUCKS!

Discuss it so we can find out more about it and prevent it from happening again. The very least we should strive to do is, find out what are the duties of DM/DG are and was this new diver mislead in that regard? He, the brand new diver, paid his money for some dive SERVICE and it looks like he did not get anything for his money. This is very damn sad!

 

[Byte Me]

No. Yes. Shortly. Can't say at the moment.

Because everyone is giving the Op **** and it's unfair. They are one person and we are many. Also, a person died that should not have and it is clearly NOT ALL his fault.:depressed:

From what I can see after reading this whole sordid thing "everyone" stopped giving the OP **** once she came back and apologized on page 24 - http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/4399847-post240.html - Prior to that based on her approach I don't see what was "unfair" about people questioning what she posted. It was all over the place for a while and what we're trying to get to here is what actually happened so hopefully it does not happen again.

You seem to picking up the torch for the OP and are doing a pretty good job of supposition yourself about things that no one here seems to know at this point. To name a few:

Interesting how you are NOW calling the "DM" a Dive GUIDE. Is that was he was referred to at sign in? Didn't think so.

You know what he was referred to at sign in? You weren't there, correct?

You think it was appropriate for this "DM"/ "Guide" to take a newbie diver and a 16 yr old who had not been in the water for a year to 100 ft wall dive with many hundreds of feet below them, with very iffy bouyancy?

Who had "iffy bouyancy" both the newbie and the 16 year old? You know the 16 year old's background? I've read this whole post and OP never mentioned "iffy bouyancy"

Sorry, there is a standard of care and a reasonable expectation that someone that has the title, and function, of DM know what they are doing. NO attempt to make the role of this GUIDE/ DM clear to divers on that boat.

Again, how do you KNOW no attempt was made? You weren't there...

Until SOMEONE comes out with the facts here all this is doing is stirring up trouble and as ScubaSteve said, making it less and less likely anyone will get anything out of this.

 

[Byte Me]

He went to this dive op and paid his money to dive.

He, the brand new diver, paid his money for some dive SERVICE and it looks like he did not get anything for his money.

Which is it? These are contradictory statements. Did he pay his money to go on a dive or did he pay for dive "service" whatever that means.

From the first statement I take it that - like thousands of others - he walked into the shop and paid for a two tank boat dive or similar.

From your second statement you're implying he paid for additional personalized service.

 

[pilot fish]

byteMe, um, no thanks.

People in the dive industry and some dm's, are here accusing the diver that died of doing it to himself, [please read this entire thread, it is obvious you have not ], and exonerating the dive op, absent any facts. That doesn't seem to bother you? It has been said by a host of posters in this thread, that since he had a C card it was HIS responsibilty to save himself and the Dive Op and onboard dive guide/dive master, are in NO way to balme. Sorry, somone has to have the nuts to stand up and defend this poor dead person, who is not here to defend himself. Sorry, I'm just trying to keep it fair and even.

 

[JCAT]

I thought this area of the board was for accident/incident analysis. I have followed this thread from the beginning and to date this is what has been presented.

A few links to news reports.
An alleged first hand witness.

What is needed is the official autopsy report, computer data, and the police report. Otherwise, it's all a waste of time. Arguing about what might have happened, should have happened, probably happened is not relevant until the actual facts are established.

As an aside, and hopefully I won't be censored for saying this, life is seldom fair.

 

[drdiver1952]

If a local regulations, marine park (ex: Cozumel) or some other authority require a DM on every dive, does that imply that the DM has certain level of responsibility for the divers on that excursion?

Just curious.

I wouldn't think so. One would think that the release forms would exempt them from responsibility, but maybe not. For my two cents worth (or 2 billion bailout dollars--cheap change!) I know from personal knowledge that at least two ops in the Caymans (not necessarily Grand Cayman) do not always have two divemasters/crew on a dive and they do not always leave a crew member on the boat.

 

[pilot fish]

It will do the thread no good for you and I to get into a thing over this, so let's not, OK? Part of what you pay for is a good briefing, a guide to SAFE, good stuff and to be taken to a site that is within your skill level. Do we agree on that much? The OP, who was there, says that did not happen. Keep in mind that he was a very brand new diver. Do you think the dive op should have alerted the divemaster/dive guide to that fact? If not, why not? If so, why was he taken to a 100 ft wall dive with a few hunderd more feet under him? I said "iffy" bouyancy because that is a safe bet with a new diver. Would you agree with that?

Which is it? These are contradictory statements. Did he pay his money to go on a dive or did he pay for dive "service" whatever that means.

From the first statement I take it that - like thousands of others - he walked into the shop and paid for a two tank boat dive or similar.

From your second statement you're implying he paid for additional personalized service.

 

[Thalassamania]

I wouldn't think so. One would think that the release forms would exempt them from responsibility, but maybe not. For my two cents worth (or 2 billion bailout dollars--cheap change!) I know from personal knowledge that at least two ops in the Caymans (not necessarily Grand Cayman) do not always have two divemasters/crew on a dive and they do not always leave a crew member on the boat.

Then, at least as I understand it, they are in violation of Caymanian law. In many ways that really is the point, we've had a bunch or threads where we've discussed if this thing is right or that thing is wrong (cameras while teaching comes to mind) and generally the outcome is somewhere around, it's not much of a problem as long as nothing else goes wrong. That's where we stand here. Something else went wrong. While I don't know how Caymanian law works, in the U.S. if you are in voilation of law and something else (even slightly unrelated) goes wrong, you're basically screwed, I'd bet that would make demonstrating willful and reckless neglience a slam dunk and then the waivers go bye-bye.

 

[ScubaSteve]

Was the OP actually present when this happened or is she simply a friend of the deceased? I might have missed the post about her being on the boat so I apologize if I did.

The OP, who was there

I am however not sorry enough to scan back 30+ pages of posts where she had 60+ posts.