Diver Death in Cayman

[Byte Me]

byteMe, um, no thanks.

People in the dive industry and some dm's, are here accusing the diver that died of doing it to himself, [please read this entire thread, it is obvious you have not ], and exonerating the dive op, absent any facts. That doesn't seem to bother you? It has been said by a host of posters in this thread, that since he had a C card it was HIS responsibilty to save himself and the Dive Op and onboard dive guide/dive master, are in NO way to balme. Sorry, somone has to have the nuts to stand up and defend this poor dead person, who is not here to defend himself. Sorry, I'm just trying to keep it fair and even.

I have read every word of this thread - your assessment is yet ANOTHER supposition which is doing NOTHING to help anyone get to the facts about what happened. I also pointed out in my other post ( http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/4397985-post193.html ) that there is PLENTY of blame to go around here. Perhaps you're the one not entirely up to speed here?

You're hardly trying to keep it fair and even, you're continually distorting facts and what people post. How many people (including me) have to say that there is plenty of blame here to go around and while the Dive OP and DM hold some responsibility for this SO DOES THE DIVER!!

My point was all you're doing is muddying the waters here. If you have FACTS please, enlighten us. Otherwise please stop distorting what others are saying and making this into an emotional argument.

 

[Seanpaul]

Was the OP actually present when this happened or is she simply a friend of the deceased? I might have missed the post about her being on the boat so I apologize if I did.



I am however not sorry enough to scan back 30+ pages of posts where she had 60+ posts.

She was on the same dive with buddy (girlfriend) at 60 Ft the DM and group was at 100 Ft (as reported). No one is sure the exact point of disappearance of the deceased.

 

[Thalassamania]

She was there, on the boat, on the dive, but stopped with her buddy (the deceased's fiancee) at 60 feet.

 

[ScubaSteve]

Sorry...now that you say that I do recall reading that. I apologize for the short detour .

 

[pilot fish]

She was there and can attest to the fact a bad, incomplete pre dive briefing was held and that he was more interested in telling jokes than safety. She also stated in this thread that the victim was guide/master's buddy and he was NOT the buddy of the teen.

Was the OP actually present when this happened or is she simply a friend of the deceased? I might have missed the post about her being on the boat so I apologize if I did.



I am however not sorry enough to scan back 30+ pages of posts where she had 60+ posts.

 

[Rhone Man]

It is never nice to speak ill of the deceased, but I do find myself wondering if it is a case of a new diver on a wall who decides that when the DM is looking elsewhere he will drop down 15 feet or so just to get a nice deep reading on his computer on the log, and then narcosis takes over... I am not saying that is what happened - nobody seems to know how or why he left the group - but having seen similar things happen (although never on a wall), I do wonder.

I do find the issues have been very emotionally clouded on this thread. The operator failed to keep a bubble-watcher on the boat - not good practice and a breach of Cayman Islands law, but it certainly doesn't seem to have had any causal effect on the accident. Similarly, despite the title of the thread, I don't see a lot of evidence to suggest that the Cayman is a high risk diving destination.

Ultimately it sounds like a tragic and avoidable diving death, but the lesson that seems to resound (to me) is that new divers should stick close to their buddy and/or the group, rather than that DMs shouldn't joke with clients, or should always keep a bubble-watcher topside.

 

[Byte Me]

It will do the thread no good for you and I to get into a thing over this, so let's not, OK? Part of what you pay for is a good briefing, a guide to SAFE, good stuff and to be taken to a site that is within your skill level. Do we agree on that much? The OP, who was there, says that did not happen. Keep in mind that he was a very brand new diver. Do you think the dive op should have alerted the divemaster/dive guide to that fact? If not, why not? If so, why was he taken to a 100 ft wall dive with a few hunderd more feet under him? I said "iffy" bouyancy because that is a safe bet with a new diver. Would you agree with that?

My intent isn't to "get into a thing" with you. What I expect and pay for when diving may be different that what others expect and pay for - I think I've been able to distill that from this whole discussion.

As for "keeping in mind he was a very new diver" - I'm aware - and so was the DM, as stated in post #21 by the OP -

... This person had only done his 2 check out dives the day before and the DM was aware of how new to diving he was. ...

I wouldn't automatically assume "iffy bouyancy" with a new diver - it depends on how well they were trained and how much emphasis was put on buoyancy in their pool and check out sessions, their knowledge of how much weight they need in fresh v salt water and for varying equipment. I've seen divers with hundreds of dives with crappy buoyancy as well as newbs with the same issue.

What I'm trying NOT to do here agree is with ASSUMPTIONS because doing so bolsters those making the assumptions and that's NOT HELPING.

 

[pilot fish]

The questions and statements you were making lead me to believe you had not read the entire thread. Anyway, nothing good will come of you and I exchanging post so I will not respond to you any further. Have a nice day and dive safely

I have read every word of this thread - your assessment is yet ANOTHER supposition which is doing NOTHING to help anyone get to the facts about what happened. I also pointed out in my other post ( http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/4397985-post193.html ) that there is PLENTY of blame to go around here. Perhaps you're the one not entirely up to speed here?

You're hardly trying to keep it fair and even, you're continually distorting facts and what people post. How many people (including me) have to say that there is plenty of blame here to go around and while the Dive OP and DM hold some responsibility for this SO DOES THE DIVER!!

My point was all you're doing is muddying the waters here. If you have FACTS please, enlighten us. Otherwise please stop distorting what others are saying and making this into an emotional argument.

 

[pilot fish]

This thread is too important to let it get side tracked by some ego rush. Some new diver with less than 49 dives should not act like a certified Dive Master and sound like they know how to conduct a dive investigation, especailly since they are still learning themselves.

and, yes, I have 250 dives, AOW and nitrox.

 

[Byte Me]

This thread is too important to let it get side tracked by some ego rush. Some new diver with less than 49 dives should not act like a certified Dive Master and sound like they know how to conduct a dive investigation, especailly since they are still learning themselves.

and, yes, I have 250 dives, AOW and nitrox.

This aimed at me?

Because if it is, after you've apparently dismissed me in the post immediately above it then pilot fish, you've got issues...