Diver death at Haigh Quarry (IL.) today...

[ticokitty]

I am so sorry "Scubatime". I know it is difficult to process and the what ifs can be endless. Thank you for your evaluation. Your experience during the rescue reiterates a few points for me....many people have no idea how/what to do during a rescue and can add to the confusion. I was an EMT and have had experiences since then in which I was attempting to administer care and have had people tell me not to or that the person was fine. It can be really confusing because you don't want to hurt the injured party or over-react, especially if you are a bit rusty on your skills. Fact is any rescue course is better than none..but it can be extremely difficult to handle all of the extra factors.

Thank you for sharing your account. I just purchased Diver Down. I much prefer to learn from others in these cases.

Can someone clarify why it is more dangerous to dive quarries? Is it loose rock or bad viz? I never have. I don't like the cold.

 

[cummings66]

Can someone clarify why it is more dangerous to dive quarries? Is it loose rock or bad viz? I never have. I don't like the cold.

I do not believe they're more dangerous. I know of some quarries that were closed to swimming due to deaths, such as they dive in head first without knowing what's below the surface. If you can walk into the quarry to dive then I'd say it's safe to dive.

Vis sucks compared to oceans and such, 30 feet would be cause to break out the champagne and celebrate. I normally see 10 - 20 feet vis.

Beaver lake had more loose rock than the quarries I've dove so don't let that dissuade you. A quarry is no more dangerous than a lake IMO.

 

[1_T_Submariner]

I have a Non-Diving friend that lives in Kankakee and passed on this article from the news paper today. I will quote the aritcle omitting the names.

Scubatime thank you for sharing your first hand experience.

" An Autopsy showed that drowning was the cause of death for a scuba diver who was pulled from Haigh Quarry in Bourbonnais Township during the weekend.
Kankakee County Coroner Bob (Last Name omitted) noted that the autopsy results are preliminary pending the outcome of toxicology tests. That is standard procedure in autopsies. the victim's scuba gear is also being examined.
The fatality is considered accidental, said (Coroners Name omitted), who noted the victim was in good health.
(Divers Name Omitted), a 34-year-old Glenview man, was pronounced dead at 10:51a.m. Sunday at Provena St. Mary's Hospital.
(Divers Name Omitted), an experienced scuba diver, had been diving at the quarry a short time earlier when he surfaced and shouted for help. Witnesses pulled him from the water, but (Divers Name Omitted) lost consciousness. Resuscitation efforts were performed but failed to save his life."

 

[artek]

very sad story
i just learned (second hand) that he was a husband and a father.
wake is tomorrow, ill find out more when and where.
it appears that he was Polish.

poko'j jego duszy

 

[Dean810]

I really appreciate Scubatime's information. He did what he could. I just hope I never have to be in that situation.

 

[elmersdiver]

I am Scubatime's buddy and was also the one administering rescue breaths to the diver. I am interested in any information i can get so i can send flowers to the wake. This incident has really opened my eyes to the importance of why we teach new divers how critical it is to follow paramount rules. I soon realized after the incident every single person that did what they could to assist in the rescue was the absolute right thing and that we should not walk around with a feeling of regret that we did something wrong, or we could have done more. God bless the family and friends of the diver!!! Safe diving to all present and future divers..

your friend,
elmersdiver

 

[Jcsgt]

I did not know the diver and was not diving with him, but was part of the rescue attempt, as you'll read in a moment.

Interestingly in the two most recent times I've dived at Haigh this year piror to diving on 23 April, both my buddy and I have had occasion to share air. Once his reg was free-flowing and once my reg was breathing hard. I've always known how important diving with your buddy is. Sadly, I've now experienced the terrible consequences that may occur when you don't.

Below is essentially the account I filed with PADI as part of an incident report. I have also shared this with Haigh Quarry:

"I was diving at Haigh Quarry Sunday April 23, 2006 as a wreck class student. My first dive was completed (according to my computer) at 9:47 a.m. About ten minutes later, after my buddy and the other three divers in my group had exited the water and were beginning our surface interval I heard someone in the water shouting "Call 9-1-1!" My first thought was that it was a drill, with someone mistakenly shouting for "9-1-1" as opposed to "calling for a pizza" or offering a similar non-emergency shout. Hearing it again, I moved to the water, about 150 yards away. As I was approaching the water I shouted to a diver in the water "Is this a drill?" He said "You don't know me. Call 9-1-1!" As I started to run to the registration area to call, I noticed another man already on his cell phone to 9-1-1. At the registration area I asked for and was given a green plastic carrying box containing an oxygen bottle. Returning to the water's edge, I saw a diver - unknown to me - on his back with my dive buddy over him ensuring his airway was clear. I put my head to the diver's chest and looked up at his head to see if I could see / hear / feel any respiration or pulse. I didn't. I also felt for a pulse at his neck. The diver was overweight and while I may have detected a small pulse, I wasn't sure. I positioned my arms to begin administering CPR. Three people on the scene assured me he was breathing. I said that I wasn't sure, but was again told by all three people he was and that I should not administer CPR. I did administer oxygen with a demand valve. Whether or not I administered oxygen before or after wanting to begin CPR, I do not recall. After watching the man for several seconds, I said again I wasn't sure that he was breathing but was told that the bubbles coming from his mouth were an indication that he was. We put the man in recovery position. Clearly he was not recovering. We rolled him on his back and my buddy began delivering mouth-to-mouth resuscitation. Soon thereafter an emergency medical team and local police arrived. The diver's gear was secured and left as it was when taken from his body. I don't know who took responsibility for the gear once the officials came. I helped the diver's buddy off with his BCD and weight belt. The buddy went to his car to retrieve the diver's wallet with his identification information. The buddy was not with the diver during the beginning of the rescue. I was told the divers were separated with the buddy retrieved from the water at the surface after the rescue had already begun, but I do not know for sure. After my group completed our second dive and was checking out, I asked how the rescued diver had fared. I was told he had died."

I've checked daily since last Sunday for information on the diver - his name, any family, where he was from, what it was that took his life (drowning? heart attack?). I haven't been able to find any information.

I did review my rescue and EFR books and discovered that my instincts were right, I should have begun CPR immediately and continued it until EMTs arrived. Whether or not that would have helped, who knows? I had been told the man was speaking at the surface then went unconscious, but that is second (if not third hand) information. If the man suffered a heart attack, my understanding is there is only a 5% recovery rate.

I wish I had been able to help save his life. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to do that. Know that the lessons I learned from that experience will be with me the rest of my life and I will make sure they are shared with others as is appropriate.

Any additional information on this sad incident will be greatly appreciated, both for me personally and to share with others as part of a difficult learning experience.

Safe diving to everyone and please always stay with your buddy. It makes diving much more fun and infinitely safer.

- ScubaTime

Try to take comfort in a couple of facts:

-If the victim was in need of CPR, then he had stopped breathing and his heart was not beating. At that point, he was essentially deceased already.

-Very few people are actually saved by CPR. I have performed CPR on many people of many ages and levels of health. I have managed to save one over the course of my entire career and was told that even that was rare.

-A lot of people, due to human nature, hesitate or even refuse to administer CPR, even when the victim is close to them. Instead, you took action. You gave this guy the very best shot he had, but he, in all likelihood, was already gone. You should be proud of yourself for doing what you did, under pressure, for a total stranger. My hat goes off to you.

 

[DandyDon]

Elmersdiver, you and your buddy did great. It'd have been nice if you'd pulled off a miracle, but you did a great job under the circumstances. Scubatime and I have messaged about Critical Incident Stress, as covered in the Padi Rescue manual. A good chapter to consider, and there's info on the net as well.

Thanks for coming to us with the info, and do let us know if we can help you talk it out or anything. A lot of us are in shock over losing a great leader on this board the other day and talking it out on another thread. We do what we can...

 

[jepuskar]

Are you the young guy who walked by our table as we were talking to Tina?

 

[scubapolly]

Can someone clarify why it is more dangerous to dive quarries? Is it loose rock or bad viz? I never have. I don't like the cold.

Cold water is probably the biggest danger (most quarries are 37F at the bottom year round). But there are a lot of things in my opinion that contribute to the reason there are so many accidents at quarries. Rarely is there a single cause for a fatality.... typically they are the result of many little things that snowball. Also it seems to me (no data to back it up) most of the quarry deaths seem to happen early in the season (April, May and June)

1) Regulator issues- you have a lot of students going to quarries to get certified BOW or beyond. Some (not all, so please don't let this start some huge arguement) are going to the quarry for their cert for the sole fact it is cheaper. Some (again not all) let $$ make a lot of their diving decissions and buy the cheapest gear thay can find- used gear from their neighbor, stuff they got off e-bay, or just cheap gear that wasn't meant for cold water, and more frequently regs they buy off the internet and put together themselves. This gear may not have been properly serviced, might not be properly fitted for the diver, or might just be poor quality in general. At the cold temps in the quarry regs need to be environmentally sealed or they WILL free flow.

2) Improper thermal protection.- temps at most quarries are 37F at the bottom year round. Divers Renting quarry suits that do not fit properly, divers underestimating the cold (why would you need to wear a 7mm wet suit in July???)

3) Trying out new gear- Lots of divers will go "local" to try out a new piece of equipment, or a new gear configuration.

4) First dive of the year, in a while or ever- Skills are rusty, nervousness, anxiety... you got it all.

5) Divers going beyond their training. Divers breaking the depth limits of their certification, "trust me dives", etc are all problems I've seen.

6) Complacency- there are a number of divers who go to their local quarry every weekend, some of these divers get laxed. ("lets hop in and check out the bus " is the extent of some divers dive plans)

7) Task loading- practicing skills or extreme situations- no mask swims, trying to use a lift bag, isolation drills etc. Add that to the previous mentioned problems (imagine having a free flow when you aren't wearing a mask)


Minimize your risk- buy gear appropriate to the environment in which you will be diving. Have your gear serviced regularly, test out new gear in a swimming pool, if you haven't dove for a while consider doing a refresher at a pool. Dive within your training (remember that if you are diving the tables you need to add 10 feet to your depth or go to the next letter group depending on the agency when diving in cold water). Do a pre-dive check before every dive. Plan your dive and dive your plan. And most importantly Stay calm- PANIC KILLS DIVERS!


*Edited typo (add 10 feet for cold... not 110)