Divemaster Responsibilities

[Riger]

Is there a crickets smiley?...

Expectations and regard for this ethic seem to vary widely, perhaps as matter of local maritime culture and law, and from what I gather, an incipient legal distinction exists between scuba-by-boat and boating, the development of which has created a muddied body of law (as if that's new I suppose).

This is a very valid point, and should be extended to all aspects (where reasonable) of international diving/travel.

Often there is an assumption that the rule/type of law in one's home country is the same around the globe. I am an expat living in a Muslim country and the Sharia (Islamic Law) courts are very different from any "Western" laws that I am accustomed to; accordingly my family and I are aware of the "high impact" differences and are sure to stay well clear. The difficulty of course is that often, on the surface (so to speak), it looks no different however, when you become part (by choice or accident) of the legal wrangling here, you can very quickly get caught in a web of huge cultural difference with potentially significant negative ramifications. This example may reflect one of the extremes of the point, however it serves as a real situation.

This is probably only remotely linked to this topic, but it is worth some consideration when discussing expectations and possible outcomes regarding matters that may have some legal bearing at any time.

Best Regards

Richard

 

[Web Monkey]

and law, and from what I gather, an incipient legal distinction exists between scuba-by-boat and boating, the development of which has created a muddied body of law (as if that's new I suppose). It is a tradition which if supported more strongly, would save lives (and raise rates...).

I don't think having an extra person on the boat would help in this case (although it would certainly help in others).

What would really help is if training standards were enforced during both training and non-training "lead" dives. Anybody that needs to have someone take them out on a dive, needs to know that their certification limits won't be willfully violated. People qualified (and confident enough) to dive on their own can do what they want.

Terry

 

[ScubaSteve]

A question to DM/DG and above....any agencies:

Through the Dive Master training and certification, are you ever told that you are not allowed to (or possibly even insured to) take an OW diver deeper than 'X' or an AOW deeper than 'X'?

 

[GaryLee]

A question to DM/DG and above....any agencies:

Through the Dive Master training and certification, are you ever told that you are not allowed to (or possibly even insured to) take an OW diver deeper than 'X' or an AOW deeper than 'X'?

With PADI there are Maximum recommended depths that on a Course Students can go to.
These are only recommended and diving beyond them is not without risk. both for the instructor and for student. If an instructor takes a student whilst on a course beyond these recommendations and something happens then although the instructor has not broken any laws or standards he has not acted as a Reasonably Prudent SCUBA Instructor would and therefore this part of any ensuing action would not be looked at favourably for him. A Dive Guide no matter what his rating has no such restrictions placed apon him as he is not there as a mentor / instructor and is not representing any Agency whilst guiding.
I am sure othr people will put there 5 cents in on this and I can always come back with PADI's International Limited's Official reply to this or any other question should you want it.

 

[Steve50]

A question to DM/DG and above....any agencies:

Through the Dive Master training and certification, are you ever told that you are not allowed to (or possibly even insured to) take an OW diver deeper than 'X' or an AOW deeper than 'X'?

PADI for OW certification dives (only)

Site, Depths and Hours
You must conduct the Open Water Dives at a dive site with conditions
and environment suitable for beginning divers. The maximum planned
depth for Open Water Dives 1 and 2 must not exceed 12 metres/40 feet.
The maximum planned depth for Open Water Dives 3 and 4 must not
exceed 18 metres/60 feet (12
metres/40 feet for 10 and 11-​

year-old Junior Divers).

 

[GaryLee]

PADI for OW certification dives (only)

Site, Depths and Hours
You must conduct the Open Water Dives at a dive site with conditions
and environment suitable for beginning divers. The maximum planned
depth for Open Water Dives 1 and 2 must not exceed 12 metres/40 feet.
The maximum planned depth for Open Water Dives 3 and 4 must not
exceed 18 metres/60 feet (12
metres/40 feet for 10 and 11-​

year-old Junior Divers).

Right on the mark Steve. I should have put in my post with regards to Non certified Divers that there are limits. I seem to recall at the last Staff Update something was said about the recommendations for depths and that they should be made mandetory on Courses. Can't remember what the outcome was though and it was only 3 months ago..

 

[ScubaSteve]

Thanks but are these the Training (i.e. certification skills dives) or are these "Hey this OW diver is coming on our charter"?


Edit


What I am asking is: If an OW diver pays to dive with a shop where it is DM or DG led, would there have been anything in their DM certification that told them not to take said OW diver below 'X' feet? Or said "AOW....? I would also have thought that the insurance providers for the DM's and shops would want to limit their exposure by adding clauses to their riders...but maybe not.

 

[Steve50]

Thanks but are these the Training (i.e. certification skills dives) or are these "Hey this OW diver is coming on our charter"?

PADI for OW certification dives (only)

 

[Seanpaul]

Gary Lee and Steve50 have it right. If you are functioning as a Certified Assistant to a PADI Instructor led course (DM or above) then you must follow the rules of the course of instruction as per the PADI Instructor Manual and you are either under direct or indirect supervision of the Instructor, depending on the task you are performing.

As mentioned earlier a DM has the ethical requirement to follow the standard safe diving practices statement of understanding, as does the individual diver, which does state "engage only in diving activities consistent with my training and experience", however there is no mention of depth. The complete statement should be available on the PADI web site.

 

[Seanpaul]

However, when children aged 10-11 are participating; direct supervision
is required at a maximum ratio of 4:1. No more than two children
aged 10-11 may be included in any group of four student divers.
Dives must not exceed 12 metres/40 feet.

On a guided tour - the above requirement is listed for "discover local diving" and depth is only mentioned for a dive where children are participating.