Dive OPs who enforce 24 hour cancelation policy but can cancel last minute??

[KeithG]

Kind of Black & White, but a very good point. Again, I have no problem with the dive op cancelling as long as they keep me in the loop of at least that possibility several days beforehand--with our 7 or 14 day weather forecasts and marine forecasts available online these days. Or the possibility of not enough divers--then you get into "what-ifs". If I'm told 3 days ahead that there are still only 3 divers signed up and they're hopeful on a 4th and I say to my wife "Sure, let's plan the trip over to Nola for Mardi Gras" since the one possible dive this month of Feb. may not go---then I do want a full refund. Give & take, both ways.

Agreed. And my restaurant analogy is even more convincing when you consider the number of times you have paid in advance for your meal. Oh, never?

Sit back and think of a shoe store in a mall. Opens with the mall, closes with the mall. Full staff on service. Customers? Total crap shoot.

 

[KeithG]

A restaurant is not dependent to operate based on weather conditions and more importantly 'very short dive windows' .

A dive boat is.

A restaurant IS very dependent upon weather.

Nice sunny warm summer weekend - everyone stays home and fires up the barbeque instead of eating out.

Last week we had a big snow storm, the restaurant we went to after curling closed early due to NO customers. The restauraunt we eventually ate in had 4 people and a full set of reserved signs on all of the empty tables. We were quickly seated as many of their reserved customers had cancelled at the last minute. The rest just did not show up.

 

[Dogbowl]

At first, I thought @bladder’s solution was rather distasteful and kind of an a$$hole way of dealing with it. But upon further thought, I now think it’s fair. The dive shop is putting the shop’s interests first, why shouldn’t the diver put his or her interests first? So the diver’s time and money to get to the location is not worth anything? I have to strongly disagree.

 

[Johnoly]

Agreed. And my restaurant analogy is even more convincing when you consider the number of times you have paid in advance for your meal. Oh, never?

You book a year in advance for a whaleshark or Manta Ray dive trip. It's big bucks,,,and you don't see a single whaleshark/manta ray the whole time.

Refund?

 

[bladder]

You book a year in advance for a whaleshark or Manta Ray dive trip. It's big bucks,,,and you don't see a single whaleshark/manta ray the whole time.

Refund?

The flaw in your argument is that it's irrelevant because you bring in factors that are beyond the control of the Dive Op.

In the discussion on this thread,not one post is saying the dive op is at fault if they cancel for conditions beyond their control including weather conditions, mechanical failure, illness, etc.

 

[TMHeimer]

Agreed. And my restaurant analogy is even more convincing when you consider the number of times you have paid in advance for your meal. Oh, never?

Sit back and think of a shoe store in a mall. Opens with the mall, closes with the mall. Full staff on service. Customers? Total crap shoot.

Yeah. I think the analogies you make brings up another issue--what are the "rules", ei. what kind of a contract are you signing or service you are seeking. If you don't take out flight cancellation you're screwed if something comes up and you can't make the flight. The flight will still go--weather (and a million other things now) notwithstanding.
If the restaurant closes because of good weather fine, that's their decision. They may or may not lose future customers because they don't know if it will be open.
Dive charters--So have a contract. "We have to know a week before the dive day that you're going and you must pay--VISA, etc.--If WE cancel the trip for weather you will be fully refunded. If YOU cancel you will not be refunded --or--you will be refunded ___% of the fee". If all that's in writing it should work.
As some have pointed out, the dive charter business has it's own built in problems, so it's really hard to compare it exactly to other businesses. But each business should have appropriate "rules".
Your shoe store is a good example of yet a different situation. Is it their decision to stay open fully staffed because the Mall is open? Or, could they cut staff or just close up on a slow day and turn on the alarm or hire a security guard? Maybe they either can't, due to Mall "rules", or they choose not to because as you say, it's a crapshoot as to how many customers may show up.

We read a lot about how rough it is to try to make a go of it as a dive op (rough as a restaurant owner as well--you hear the 5 out of 6 start ups fail, etc.). We hear "You can make a million owning dive shop -- start off with two million". I have no idea how true all that is since I know nothing about running a dive op. But, it has to be "fair" to the customer. I have maybe only taken 20-30 boat dive trips in my 13 years and can think of only one time I was pissed off. The trip was on, then off, not sure, etc. Then he calls the NIGHT before saying it's on again. I said I had made other plans and couldn't go (which I hadn't, and really did want to go). It was the principal of the thing. You can't call the night before--well unless you clarify that you MIGHT call the night before and "Is that OK with you, Mr. Customer"?

 

[Steve_C]

with our 7 or 14 day weather forecasts and marine

best guesses

When I book a NC dive I start watching the marine forecsts for the area. They can oscellate from great to bad and back again. Op I use tries to cancel by 6 pm the night before. But have had the weather turn out worse than he expected and a cancel at the dock. Have also had iffy forecasts but he sensed it would be ok and we wound up with flat seas and sunny.

I can see some of the connections but I do not think that the restaraunt comparison is completely correct. If the boat goes they burn gas. Which is a major expense. The restaurant burns electricity. Also depends on the size of the boat. In NC with longer runs some boats have larger mins, like 6, 8 10 depending on sights and distances. Having said that I have been on some dives where we were 1 or 2 under the min or the captain switched to a closer in site at the start. We knew we were under and were glad to dive.

Another difference is that marine engine overhauls are based on usage (Wookie can correct me if I am wrong) but that is not true for stoves.

 

[Wookie]

Another difference is that marine engine overhauls are based on usage (Wookie can correct me if I am wrong) but that is not true for stoves.

A good captain keeps his engines tuned, and overhauls them as they will no longer tune, and this is 90% based on usage and 10% based on bad maintenance. But yes, they wear out. In my experience repairing commercial galleys, stoves break because they can. You might replace the same part 3 times in a week and then not for 20 years.

But I'm not here to prove myself right, either. After all, I did it for 20 years successfully. I know how it works.

 

[bladder]

I'm a little shocked. Unless no one was going, the Key West operators will put you on each other's boat.

I am back at work and had to go into a folder that was not synced with my home pc because Lost Reef Adventures isn't in my "saved Dive Ops" folder. I wanted to give you a more clarified, comprehensive response.

When I get on the phone with a Dive Op, I've got an open Word document and I type notes as I talk to the person. What started out as a general inquiry about dive sites, schedules, policies, etc got rather dicey when I asked my typical specific pointed questions about the dive cancellation policy. The woman I spoke to who identified herself as the manager, got quite an attitude and clearly stated that if the diver doesn't cancel within 24 hours then they're charged full price- unless the dive is canceled for whatever reason. She also stated that they reserve the right to cancel right up until the night before, at which point I said "where does that leave me, how can I possibly get on another boat if I find out that late?". Her response was "we try to find you another boat that's going out" but she didn't sound all that convincing and besides, there's no obligation on her part, who knows if they make one call or 5, or none at all?

 

[Steve_C]

. Her response was "we try to find you another boat that's going out" but she didn't sound all that convincing and besides, there's no obligation on her part, who knows if they make one call or 5, or none at all?

Sounds like she gave you an honest answer. I have been put onto another boat several times in the Keys