Dive Master... why?

[Thalassamania]

... Well, in my experience (teaching for 3 different agencies), there is very little that varies when it comes to teaching someone how to dive.

That is one of the strangest statements that I've ever read. While it may be true for you, that is just you, rather than the entire realm of possibilities. I, for one, can run the course that I do, and not run afoul of any NAUI rules or requirements, but I could not run my course under PADI rules, if for no other reason than I would not comply with the required skill order and exercises.

 

[japan-diver]

I know the standards. An instructor from any other agency has to complete IDC and IE. However, they may skip the AI portion of the IDC.

When I later crossed-over to SSI, all I had to complete was a 1.5 day orientation to get the instructor rating. This would not have been possible the other way around (into PADI).

The PADI IDC and IE is expensive. A short cross-over is cheap. If you have to do ONE full instructor course.... my point is that it should be with the agency that does not allow direct cross-overs.

And you contradict yourself with this. PADI insist on a full training program. Other agencies accept simply cross-over of qualifications. That was my point in the first place.

Well, in my experience (teaching for 3 different agencies), there is very little that varies when it comes to teaching someone how to dive. But, as a professional instructor, the fact that PADI dominates something like 90% of the global, recreational, diving market...seems to provide a good reason to choose them as a certifying agency. From there, it is a simple, and cheaper, process to convert to another agency in the future, should you ever desire it.

In one statement you say that a crossover must attend a full IDC and IE then you say they can skip the AI portion - so not a full program? The crossover from agency to agency is different for each one ,some are easy and some not so much but to choose based on ease of crossover is not very smart. Being PADI does not make the crossover easier- I have had many PADI instructors struggle with the material in a NAUI crossover and others fly right through being PADI didn't help those who struggled and most who passed easily had much knowledge from outside the PADI realm to help them.

90% I don't even think that PADI makes that outrageous of a claim. There is no doubt they are the largest but largest does not mean they are the right fit for everyone and there is a great difference in teaching someone to dive within the PADI system and how many others do it as Thal and others can attest to. The class I teach would violate PADI standards but it is very effective and puts out good divers as does Thal and others- not saying the PADI system can not put put a good diver just that there are other ways to do it.

 

[Apecks]

I don't think it has much added value for a recreational diver to do the DM course.

In fact, the next step after the AOW is the Rescue Diver course (before becoming DM; not too sure if you need it for the Master Diver, but I'd hope so) - and that course is absolutely worth it!! To me, every recreational diver should do it..

I second that, everyone if diving regularly should do the RD course.........

Why do DM, why not do MSD if you want to go the recreational route only.

 

[Thalassamania]

Because there is no "do" in MSD.

 

[Apecks]

Because there is no "do" in MSD.

I disagree with that. If you pick your specs to suit the sort of diving you want to do, it can be very challenging. I did deep, wreck, nav, nitrox & night as my specs and learn't a lot from them. It made me personally a better diver.

I since did my DM as I have a lot more time on my hands now and it makes diving cheaper for me.

 

[Thalassamania]

As Yoda said in response to the idea of signing up for MSD, "there is not do, only pay."

What "do" there was was in your specialty courses,

 

[DevonDiver]

That is one of the strangest statements that I've ever read. While it may be true for you, that is just you, rather than the entire realm of possibilities. I, for one, can run the course that I do, and not run afoul of any NAUI rules or requirements, but I could not run my course under PADI rules, if for no other reason than I would not comply with the required skill order and exercises.

My statement was getting down to basics....a mask remove is a mask remove, air sharing is air sharing. The basic requirements for any scuba entry-level course are pretty identical.

Ok, the order or sequence of skills can vary between agencies... but even that is flexible. Even with PADI, you have flexibility about sequencing. Within any particular 'module' you can order as you want. If you 'need' to change order within modules, then you can apply for a dispensation.

 

[DevonDiver]

In one statement you say that a crossover must attend a full IDC and IE then you say they can skip the AI portion - so not a full program? The crossover from agency to agency is different for each one ,some are easy and some not so much but to choose based on ease of crossover is not very smart. Being PADI does not make the crossover easier- I have had many PADI instructors struggle with the material in a NAUI crossover and others fly right through being PADI didn't help those who struggled and most who passed easily had much knowledge from outside the PADI realm to help them.

AI is not officially IDC...although it is normally bolted on.

I wasn't talking about 'ease' for individual instructors to cross over. I was talking about capital expenditure and time commitment.

90% I don't even think that PADI makes that outrageous of a claim. There is no doubt they are the largest but largest does not mean they are the right fit for everyone and there is a great difference in teaching someone to dive within the PADI system and how many others do it as Thal and others can attest to. The class I teach would violate PADI standards but it is very effective and puts out good divers as does Thal and others- not saying the PADI system can not put put a good diver just that there are other ways to do it.

Please don't turn this into a PADI bashing...or agency comparison arguement. That was not my intention.

PADI market share is currently 72-75% on OW certifications. My apologies for the inital exageration.

 

[Thalassamania]

My statement was getting down to basics....a mask remove is a mask remove, air sharing is air sharing. The basic requirements for any scuba entry-level course are pretty identical.

Ok, the order or sequence of skills can vary between agencies... but even that is flexible. Even with PADI, you have flexibility about sequencing. Within any particular 'module' you can order as you want. If you 'need' to change order within modules, then you can apply for a dispensation.

You approach teaching diving though it were naught but a lego set to be assembled, I fear that my approach is somewhat more sophisticated. But then we are anticipating rather different products.

 

[DevonDiver]

You approach teaching diving though it were naught but a lego set to be assembled, I fear that my approach is somewhat more sophisticated. But then we are anticipating rather different products.

And you pass judgement on people you have never met or seen in the water.

Making crude assumptions and generalisations is the trait of a feeble or closed mind.

I would expect more of you than comments like this Thalassamania.....