Dive Master Certification

[HammerNoMore]

So, your students are basically paying for the boat diving, which isn't a part of the $375 course I inquired about.

Your price is probably good, if someone wants the boat diving...I presume they aren't working the boat, since they are "boat diving"...

Sean

I think it basicly boils down to the fact that Christi has a very different business model than what we have here in the states.

I paid $600 for my DM class, including books. The dives that have been involved after that have been pretty much cost free for me, with the exception of the gas to get to the site. The cost for the shop has been air fills. For this minor cost, they are getting a) months of free help with classes and b) a future staff member to help out with classes. The shop does not run a dive charter but has OW classes going on pretty much every weekend, on top of other classes.

Now let's look at Christi's situation. She is running a dive charter business. I imagine she gets a fair share of classes, but I'm guessing it is far from the biggest chunk of business. She has a full time staff (as apposed to a pretty much weekend volunteer staff) that she is paying to DM on the boat. She probably doesn't need the free help. In addition, if someone spends a month+ in Cozumel to get a DM, they are probably not going to stick around to work for her later so she's not investing in her company by doing the training. Top this all off with the very real cost of running the boat, so she is eating more than just the cost of air for this DMC to be on her boat. IIRC she runs a 6 pack, which needs 1 DM. A DMC is taking up a paying spot on the boat.

As you can see, in one scenario the shop is spending very little on the DMC with multiple benefits to the shop, while in the other the shop is spending more, with less, if any beneifts. Obviously the latter would need/want to charge more than the former.

James

 

[ggunn]

Keep in mind that all of my instruction is totally private/semi-private for families friends taking the course together. OW courses in your local dive shop are not private.

Some are; mine was. I waited until too late before a scheduled Coz trip (yes, I went to Cozumel several times before I started diving) to meet any of the LDS's class schedules, so a private lesson was my only option other than waiting a whole 'nother year.

My first blue water dive was just two days after my last cert dive in Lake Travis. It's been over 10 years, and I haven't been back in Travis since. Spoiled? Absolutely!

 

[Christi]

I think it basicly boils down to the fact that Christi has a very different business model than what we have here in the states.

I paid $600 for my DM class, including books. The dives that have been involved after that have been pretty much cost free for me, with the exception of the gas to get to the site. The cost for the shop has been air fills. For this minor cost, they are getting a) months of free help with classes and b) a future staff member to help out with classes. The shop does not run a dive charter but has OW classes going on pretty much every weekend, on top of other classes.

Now let's look at Christi's situation. She is running a dive charter business. I imagine she gets a fair share of classes, but I'm guessing it is far from the biggest chunk of business. She has a full time staff (as apposed to a pretty much weekend volunteer staff) that she is paying to DM on the boat. She probably doesn't need the free help. In addition, if someone spends a month+ in Cozumel to get a DM, they are probably not going to stick around to work for her later so she's not investing in her company by doing the training. Top this all off with the very real cost of running the boat, so she is eating more than just the cost of air for this DMC to be on her boat. IIRC she runs a 6 pack, which needs 1 DM. A DMC is taking up a paying spot on the boat.

As you can see, in one scenario the shop is spending very little on the DMC with multiple benefits to the shop, while in the other the shop is spending more, with less, if any beneifts. Obviously the latter would need/want to charge more than the former.

James

You summed it up very well. You simply cannot compare the pricing between a dive shop/school in the states and here.

There is alot more to it than providing air for the DMC. If they are on the boat, whether working or not, they are taking a space on the boat, which is money. Furthermore, they are not actually "working," they are training and observing and assisting the DM as needed. This is PART of the training, which costs money. We do not give away DM Cards.

And you're right, I don't need the free help. A DMC is not doing a shop here any favors because we all have full-time staff to take care of everything. We do not operate like most shops in the states with weekend and evening volunteers.

If you are going to compare prices, compare apples to appes. Check with other dive shops on the island for prices, not in your area. I know what my costs involved are, and trust me, a $700 DM class does not bring in much profit.

Shops on the island charge anywhere between $600 and $1000...my price of $700 is on the lower end of that scale.

When I did my DM course here, it cost me close to $900, and that was several years ago.

Thanks again James for a wonderful explanation!

 

[Tobagoman]

I guess I'm one of the lucky ones. My DM course is pro gratis. I have to continue on with the shop for at least a year after completing the training. I have been training since late spring and should finish up next month. I have 20 years dive experience and most of that was as a professional diver for NOAA and then doing biological research (I'm a marine biologist/chemist), so that helped me out with a HUGE head start. The big difference is interacting with students, which I had no experience with before, plus we are required to volunteer in the shop a few nights a week. I have been enjoying the hell out of the course and plan on working part time for the shop as a DM (or instructor when I complete that course) once I am certified for as long as I am in the area.

So even with my extensive background and well over a 1000 dives (non-recreational) I still feel that I would not have gotten as much out of the course in only 30 days (the difference being we are only working with students 2 weekends a month).

 

[HammerNoMore]

plus we are required to volunteer in the shop a few nights a week.

Wow...free shop labor 3 nights a week. IMHO your "free" course is far more expensive than my $600 course .

James

 

[GPdiver]

"How long to complete DM?" is a question that either reflects a poor attitude or a skimpy program. The DM course requires and needs the candidate to complete a number of skills to a degree of proficiency and to also demonstrate leadership abilities, rescue skills, and proper attitude and role model behavior. To ask for a definite time limitation to complete this is naive unless you feel you already posess all the required skills in abundance and just need to be tested. To ask of a facility that they place such a time limit is only insurance that if they give you such a time your certification will be essencially a "met minimum requirements" cert.

theskull

Mr Skull
I have neither a poor attitude nor am I interested in a skimpy program.
My question's were in a more general sense I asked for no definitive time limit.
leaving out all of the details like:is my three to four weeks of
vacation enough or should I take a leave of absence until completion. the extra cost in staying for a undetermined amount of time ect.

I live twenty minutes from DFW.I have conducted all of my Dives in the clear warm caribean with the exception of Fiji.
All of my future diving will be in clear warm water.
I have no interest in training in a enviroment I will never dive in. Completed AOW at logged dive 200
I am at a point in my life with a X wife no kids no family in the
area.
I work in the area of Professional Motorsports and have always had the calling of Island life and the sea.
This cerification just may push me over the edge and make the big move. If not so what! I will still be a better diver with the education and experience of having completed this.

Christi: either way I will see you at the end of October and
would love to hear how and why you made the big move.

 

[Otter]

...snip...

And you're right, I don't need the free help. A DMC is not doing a shop here any favors because we all have full-time staff to take care of everything. We do not operate like most shops in the states with weekend and evening volunteers.

...snip......my price of $700 is on the lower end of that scale.

...snip...

So, I can pay $700 to do "almost daily diving for 3-4 weeks"? sign me up -- oh, wait. Do you need an extra MSDT for a month or two a year ??

P.S. I know there is alot of extra hard work, but to dive there for a month? Wowzer!

 

[beachdivequeenbelam]

I've been quoted $375 for the entire course...regardless of length, regardless of how many courses I tag along with to increase my skill level.

Your charge of $120 each weekend may include many things my $375 won't be buying.

that's 120 is
20-dive on Friday
20-dive on Sat
20-dive on sun
60 for babysitting when my husband can't come to the quarry and then add another 60 to the 120 if my husband comes too
on top of the 495 for the course, 45 for the DM book, and I haven't got my other books that are going to come up to a cost of about 500 all together

 

[another mike]

I am already Rescue Diver
What is the going rate$$ and how long to complete on the Island?

Hey,

I did my internship etc. at home where I'm not spending $$$ and vacation time. Now, while I live up north where diving is a seasonal and weekend thing; I pretty much took the maximum time allotted and felt like I got much more out of it than some other LDS's that also offered "a one week course". Do it at home! I went through confined and OW training with half a dozen classes at least. Take your time!! I plan on spending at least another 2 summers here as a DM before even thinking about my IDC. ( It's very quiet up here since 9/11 . Only worked on 2 courses this Summer so I did EANX to better prepare myself ).

good luck!
you won't regret it!

"dive sherpa"

ps any q's or comments: mike@compmore.net

 

[Mako Mark]

Wow, there have been a lot of interesting comments on this thread since I last saw it. I think one of the general trends is that there a lot of people out there that know sweet FA about what they are talking about regarding this topic. Im sorry if this offends anyone, but taking a DM course doesnt quallify anyone to comment on how it should be taught.

Until you have taught your first thirty or fourty divemasters, you probably shouldnt be commenting on this thread. or it should be moved to I2I.

PADI's reccommended course hours is 50 for the Divemaster.

For all of you that are confusing how long it takes to read the book, take the exams, do the swims, draw the map etc with how long it takes to become a seasoned professional, take a good look at any dive course.

The course is designed to give you the basic skills and knowledge for that particular level.

Can you do the course in a week or ten days? SURE YOU CAN

Can you become a professional Divemaster in a week to ten days H*ll NO

The more internship you can get with real students and divers the better, but as James Goddard and Christi pointed out dont expect to get 4 weeks all you can dive buffet for $400. The closest I can do is $500 for 50 or so dives, and another $500 for the course.

If you already have the dives, great, take the course
if you dont have the dives, go get them then take the course,

or take the course and get them during the course,

or take the course and get them after the course.

you choose what kind of divemaster you want to be.

Personally I think they should dumb down the divemaster course, make it into DIVEGUIDE, take away all the teaching from it, make the Assistant Instructor course a separate entity rather than the consolation proze for failing an IE, that would give us more time to train real instructors during the IDC.

Thats my opinion and I'm sticking to it and am happy to discuss it with anyone that knows what they are talking about.