Dive Boat Unattended By Dive Op With Divers Below - Safe Practice?

[Scubagolf]

I've been on a dive boat off the coast of FL and had the captain ask if we minded if he dove too. He said that he frequently did that. We told him we did mind, and he stayed on the boat.

I think it's not exactly uncommon, although I'm sure glad our captain had courtesy to ask our opinion first.

Years ago we were on a 6 pack at an ABCs locale with the dive op owner/boat driver and 4 of us. All of us including Mr. Dive Op backrolled in and we drifted in 80 FSW for 30 mins with the boat drifting with nobody on it. After 30 mins Mr. Dive Op ascended to the boat and then picked us up 20 mins later.

 

[Altamira]

Years ago we were on a 6 pack at an ABCs locale with the dive op owner/boat driver and 4 of us. All of us including Mr. Dive Op backrolled in and we drifted in 80 FSW for 30 mins with the boat drifting with nobody on it. After 30 mins Mr. Dive Op ascended to the boat and then picked us up 20 mins later.

Did you know that was the game plan before you agreed to go on the dive? What was going to be the game plan if one of you divers had a medical emergency or some other big problem and needed immediate assistance? Maybe I am just old and getting cranky, but that sounds like a half assed dive operation to be avoided at all cost. Care to share the name?

 

[stuartv]

We were recently on a dive trip off of Kauai with a PADI dive shop.
Upon surfacing, we found the boat to be unattended and the captain and watcher in the water snorkeling.

Is this a sanctioned and allowable practice according to Coast Guard and/or PADI safety standards?

I'm interested in thoughts from the group.

I don't know if it's against CG regs, but if the boat was at anchor, it sounds like it was not. And if it's not against CG regs, I wouldn't expect PADI to have any problem with it.

Regardless, there was a DM in the water with the divers. The captain and crew were on the surface where they could see the boat at all times. If the anchor line broke or the boat dragged the anchor or the tide raised the anchor off the bottom or whatever, it sounds like there would have been no issue with the captain or crew swimming to it and getting back aboard. I think I also read somewhere in the thread that the whole thing was close enough to shore for people to swim to shore if necessary (which would be pretty typical anywhere in HI that I've dived).

I am making the assumption that all the divers were OW certified (i.e. no OW students in the group).

Personally, I would have no problem with this scenario.

If the captain and crew were diving, instead of snorkeling, so completely unaware of anything that may be happening with the boat, then I would have an issue.

If there were any OW students in the group, then I would feel like being babysat by the boat was appropriate. Certified divers should not need to be babysat.

When I dive off a boat, I want to know that they have appropriate emergency supplies on board (e.g. O2). Other than that, all I EXPECT is a ride to and from the dive site and a good, competent effort at picking me up at the end of the dive (or promptly and properly initiating emergency services). Even with the best boat and crew, there is ALWAYS the potential that the boat won't be there when I surface. So, I think it is every diver's responsibility to be properly prepared in case that does happen. And if they're properly prepared for that, this particular scenario shouldn't be a problem. At most, it could result in some inconvenience (to the properly prepared diver). And even that seems extremely unlikely (in this particular scenario).

 

[Sevenrider860]

There is an operator in Pensacola where the captain of the boat dives his rebreather while the divers are in the water. He has left his unlicensed deck hand on board to assist with returning divers...although the deck hand admitted he could not operate the boat nor get us back to the marina should something happen. I am confident I or the deckhand could have operated the marine radio in the event the captain never came back.

 

[KeithG]

You keep saying this, but the question specifically addressed US boats in US waters running a US licensed operator. What heppens in the rest of the world, for better or worse, is better or worse. I know of operations in Grand Cayman who don't use a licensed individual at all. But that isn't the question. And the OP didn't ask if you had a problem with it, he asked if PADI had a problem with it. My guess is that PADI doesn't address it. PADIs insurance company would say "The boat must be operated in accordance with all applicable regulations". The Coast Guard would float an air biscuit and start an investigation, no doubt. The operator would tell the CG it was OK, no current, holding a line, etc. He would then get his pee-pee whacked and his birthday taken away for a period not to exceed 5 years.

I can't find a regulation because I'm sure it doesn't even cross anyone's mind that anyone would actually do this. In fact, an operator in Key West routinely did this, and the investigations office couldn't catch him at it. Until they did......

I thought PADI was a training agency. Was this a training dive? If not, then why is anyone asking about PADI?

Or am I missing something...

 

[Lorenzoid]

. . . The captain and crew were on the surface where they could see the boat at all times. If the anchor line broke or the boat dragged the anchor or the tide raised the anchor off the bottom or whatever, it sounds like there would have been no issue with the captain or crew swimming to it and getting back aboard. I think I also read somewhere in the thread that the whole thing was close enough to shore for people to swim to shore if necessary (which would be pretty typical anywhere in HI that I've dived). . . .

I'm not comfortable with the idea that the captain and crew are going to decide whether it's okay for them to leave the boat unattended while they go snorkeling based on an on-the-spot assessment of the conditions--current, distance to shore, etc. Their job is to operate the boat, not to leave the boat. While the captain and crew are no doubt in a better position than me to weigh the factors and make a decision whether it's safe, that's not really their area of expertise--they are experts in operating the boat. Although I wouldn't expect a dive training agency like PADI to have anything to do with it, I would expect there to be some sort of regulation or maritime convention that a dive boat is never to be left unattended while divers are in the water--period.

 

[stuartv]

I thought PADI was a training agency. Was this a training dive? If not, then why is anyone asking about PADI?

Or am I missing something...

If a dive guide is a PADI-certified Divemaster professionally engaged in that capacity, then are there not PADI standards that would be applied to his/her actions, even with no students involved? As an SDI DM, I have agency standards that apply to my conduct all the time.

EDIT: I'm not saying the DM did anything wrong. I'm just saying that it seems like there COULD be PADI standards that applied in this situation, even though there was no training happening.

 

[Lorenzoid]

I thought PADI was a training agency. Was this a training dive? If not, then why is anyone asking about PADI?

Or am I missing something...

The OP asked whether PADI's "standards" touch on this issue. And they might. I brought up the case of the woman who sued PADI along with the dive op because the PADI-affiliated dive op filled a tank with contaminated air. Apparently PADI at the time had some sort of representation about air quality, which if I recall the story correctly, they have since removed and replaced with something along the lines of requiring their affiliate shops to "obey all applicable government regulations." One would think PADI likewise no longer has anything to say about boat operation--if they ever did--except perhaps requiring affiliates to obey all applicable regulations.

 

[stuartv]

I'm not comfortable with the idea that the captain and crew are going to decide whether it's okay for them to leave the boat unattended while they go snorkeling based on an on-the-spot assessment of the conditions--current, distance to shore, etc. Their job is to operate the boat, not to leave the boat. While the captain and crew are no doubt in a better position than me to weigh the factors and make a decision whether it's safe, that's not really their area of expertise--they are experts in operating the boat. Although I wouldn't expect a dive training agency like PADI to have anything to do with it, I would expect there to be some sort of regulation or maritime convention that a dive boat is never to be left unattended while divers are in the water--period.

I could see there being some reg that applies to commercial operations in that regard. I don't believe there would be any general reg or maritime convention to stop two guys from going out in one of their personal boats, anchoring it, and leaving it unattended while they dive. But, since @Wookie has been in this thread and I don't THINK he said there is an actual reg against it, I'm guessing there is not. Maybe I misread something?

After having a brief look into what it would take to have a proper captain's license even to run a commercial 6-pack dive charter boat, I would be pretty comfortable that the boat's captain could make a good judgment about his ability to get off the boat, snorkel, and still be able to get back on the boat. And if the boat is bigger than a 6-pack, even more confidence. Being an expert in operating the boat means they have to be pretty expert in things like judging current, etc.. Being an experienced dive boat operator (at least in some places) means being REALLY expert in it. Dropping an anchor, or a crewman with a hook, in a current and reliably hitting a specific spot on the bottom or wreck doesn't look that easy, to me.

But, that's just me. I would have no problem with it if someone else was not so comfortable with it and insisted the captain or a licensed crewman stay on the boat at all times. It does seem like the captain asking the passengers about it first would be the polite thing to do, considering the passengers are the paying customers.

 

[Lorenzoid]

I meant commercial dive ops. Two guys on a private vessel can take whatever risk they want as far as I'm concerned (though I guess my tax dollars help pay for the Coast Guard rescue).

Anyway, this has been an eye-opening thread. If there are dive ops that do this without informing their customers beforehand, I would like to know who they are, so I can choose a different dive op.