Dive accident in Maui

[Knight1989]

I know that when we had Discover Scuba Classes it was no uncommon for the instructor to take multiple students out at once. Of course he was a one man resort shop, he didnt have much of a choice. As he was training me for my DM as soon as I completed my AOW he had me going with him to help keep an eye on things if he was doing multiple students.

I think that it is acceptable to take multiple students out, but it does take a differant mindset. Try running a live fire CQB drill with 12 students, talk about learning to watch multiple people at once. Its a skill that has to come with time and good training. I dont think it fair to set a specific number as a ratio in this case since it will often be situational dependant. Hopefully a good instructor will know when that situation arises where he's going to need help.

 

[Charlie99]

It appears that the 911 personnel were confused by both a swimmer incident at Black Rock, and the scuba incident shortly thereafter a bit further north at Old Airport.

29 minute response time!

Earlier article on the two deaths.

 

[rjens]

I want to extend my sympathies to the family and friends of both divers.

Having certified at Airport Beach, and snorkled around BR, this one hits close to home.

Several comments have been made about the classes, as a three day wonder OW diver certified off airport beach I can talk to how this works. Let me start this by saying that the instructor and dive shop I used were highly recommended by a friend, and I have since recommended him and them to others. In our case I felt that our instructor was very thorough, stressed safety, and at no time during the entire 3 day process did I feel uncomforable with the process. You are free to disagree based on how you were trained or train, but for me, it worked.

Our instructor had been teaching full time (2 groups a week, year round, for over 15 years). Compare that to the average part time instructor in the average state side LDS that may teach one or two groups a month.

The class I was in was 8 students and 1 instructor. The dry classroom was the parking lot (I have heard they can't do this any more). The pool "classroom" is a sandy spot in about 15' of water maybe 40 feet off the beach. All dives are done in the ocean, the shallow, calm, warm water, high visability conditions are "comparable" to the safe conditions of a pool.

Each day the routine was similar, meet at the shop at 9am, load gear and drive to Airport Beach. Lesson in the parking lot, dive, lunch and afternoon lesson, 2nd dive, update log books, homework assignment, back to the LDS to rinse gear and done by 3:30pm.

Our instructor would cover the lesson topics, then we would gear up and dive. He would set the float and down line, then we would swim out and follow the line down to the "classroom". Here we would kneel (just like any other pool based PADI class) and practice then demonstrate the skills (one at a time with the instructor watching) we had discussed in advance in the dry classroom. This portion of the dive would usually take 20 min or so. During this time we would kneel in a semi-circle, roughly a foot apart shoulder to shoulder facing the instructor.

Following the classroom work he led us on a 10-15 min "follow me" dive in an area with a hard bottom between 20-40fsw. During this time we worked on our bouyancy and buddy skills. Every day during the dry portion of the classroom he stressed the importance of both and he reinforced the importance of staying off the coral and bottom. During this portion of the "lesson" we were expected to hover as he pointed out the local octopus and eel population. We were responsible for monitoring our air, and notifying him when we were under 1000 psi (when we would head in).

By the time we were done, we had done 6 beach entries, 6 beach exits, had 4 hours in open water conditions, nearly a 1/3 of which had been spent working on trim and bouyancy.

Are there better ways to certify, definately... and I believe that my instructor was likely better than average (it always comes down to the instructor) ... but lets not assume that these classes an "accident waiting to happen". I suspect there is an instructor somewhere in Maui second guessing him/herself that they should have / could have done something different, but whatever happened it likely could have happened just as easily at BW in Monterey, or some quarry in the NE, or anywhere else you may have gone for your initial OW dives. Any way it happened, it is still very sad.

Rob

 

[alcina]

On the original story, I see nothing in the news reports that this was a class nor an intro experience...only that in this case he was with a group. Which implies to me that he was a certified diver already.

I think the discussion on student numbers etc is valuable, but perhaps not directly related to this incident. Or did I miss something?

 

[Charlie99]

On the original story, I see nothing in the news reports that this was a class nor an intro experience...only that in this case he was with a group. Which implies to me that he was a certified diver already.

I think the discussion on student numbers etc is valuable, but perhaps not directly related to this incident. Or did I miss something?

I don't think you missed anything. The only mention of a class or introductory dive was the 2nd or 3rd hand info in the first post.

To me, it looks to be more related to the sort of incident Lamont posted a couple days ago, about buddies abandoning a diver who is aborting the dive due to shortness of breath.


Charlie

 

[Night Diver]

I don't know if this was or wasn't an introductory dive, although I tried to be careful to say exactly that in my comments. I'm not sure I would conclude that the absence of that information in the quite brief newspaper mention of the incident proves its falsity. Second or third-hand information, as you say, isn't necessarily inaccurate although of course we are all allowed to determine the extent to which we each choose to rely on that sort of a report.

I did look on the Sacramento Bee website and saw nothing regarding the circumstances of his death in the diver's death notice.

In any event, I know we all agree this was a tragic incident. My comments regarding introductory dives for non-divers weren't directed to (again, I think I was careful to say so) basic open water instruction or diving by already-certified divers.

Charlie99, I have snorkeled pretty far out off Kaanapali Beach (as opposed to around Black Rock) and never saw anything worth diving on. I see your profile says Kihei, do you know of anything beach-reachable off Kaanapali that would attract experienced divers?

 

[slingshot]

Alcina, Charlie99

You are both correct, it is not first hand information that I included in the first post, though in my defense I should point out I did not say it was. Although I do not wish to add fuel to the fire, the divemaster at the local shore dive shop in Kaanapali seemed to corroborate the information of the newly certified divers with whom I was talking, as he expressed concerns that the incident would lead to more restrictions on introductory dives. Nonetheless, he may also have been misinformed, and the circumstances of the accident remain unclear. What I find most concerning is that there doesn't seem to be any source of reliable information about the incident, and an opportunity to learn from the tragedy is going unfulfilled. It is really in this latter spirit that I hope more information will become available to the diving community in time.

 

[SteveDiver]

This really pisses me off! These instructors should not be let in the water with students! I was just diving BlackRock about a month and a half ago and the things I saw would make just about anybody cringe.

My son and I were almost done with our dive when we saw a one of the resort instructors swimming out underwater with a student, but the student was about 6' behind the instuctor! They were heading out to about 30' of water where the park them on they're knees in the sand to look at fish. About 10 minutes later we looked up and saw the instructor towing this lady on the surface with the DM towing her gear. They dragged her back to the beach where they put her on O2 and an ambulance came and picked her up. I guess she was ok but from what I under stand, that wasn't the first time that happend while we were there.

A couple of hours later I was driving down the highway, looked over and saw this same instructor smoking! IMHO, these clowns should be shut down and have they're cards revoked!

P.S. - I know the victims name...I don't know how yet, but I do know it.

This is an unfortunate accident my heart goes out to the victims family. When I took my dive training it was in a group of four. We had two instructors with us one instructor would lead the new divers and the other instructor was behind us. They watched us like hawks! it was very comforting as a new diver knowing that you are being watched closely. One student's reg fell out of his mouth and the Instructor was assisting him before a blink of an eye! it was amazing on how fast he moved! I can tell you that they did not miss a thing...

 

[Charlie99]

it is not first hand information that I included in the first post, though in my defense I should point out I did not say it was. Although I do not wish to add fuel to the fire, the divemaster at the local shore dive shop in Kaanapali seemed to corroborate the information of the newly certified divers with whom I was talking, as he expressed concerns that the incident would lead to more restrictions on introductory dives. Nonetheless, he may also have been misinformed, and the circumstances of the accident remain unclear. What I find most concerning is that there doesn't seem to be any source of reliable information about the incident, and an opportunity to learn from the tragedy is going unfulfilled. It is really in this latter spirit that I hope more information will become available to the diving community in time.

I wasn't slinging any shot in your direction, Slingshot, just expressing my irritation that this thread so quickly degenerated into a generic "slam instructors and introductory/discover scuba dives" thread, even in the absence of any firm indication that this had anything to do with it.

My limited experience with intro dives leads me to believe that it would be unlikely for the instructor/DM to not notice a diver turning back. Unfortunately, far too often certified divers have been known to wave goodbye to one diver in their group that decides to abort the dive.

The question of whether or not it was an intro dive could be resolved by anyone from the Sacramento area that knows whether or not the victim, Troy Bangs, was a certified diver. Does anybody out there know his cert status?