Disturbing trend in diving?

[Eric Sedletzky]

I feel it is relevant to share in this thread my recent (December) experience, where reliance on a dive guide could have ended far worse than it did.

It was in the middle of a weeklong liveaboard trip in Egypt, by that time there was an established rapport and trust between a group of 8 divers and a dive guide. We were doing the first in a series of 3 dives on the wreck of the "SS Thistlegorm". Conditions were bad, it was beginning to get dark, and there was a strong current from south to north, i.e. from the stern to the bow, opposite to what it typically is there. The dive site was new to all except 1, maybe 2 divers in the group.

In the briefing, the guide explicitly said it would be a no-penetration dive, due to conditions and the fact that we were going to do a dedicated penetration dive of the cargo holds the next day. We tied at the stern, proceeded towards the bow, with the current. My dive buddy and I were 2nd or 3d pair behind the guide. Pretty soon, before reaching the bow, the guide stops, gives/receives and OK signal from all, then penetrates the wreck, in the area, as I later learned, of the captains quarters and I guess the bridge.

We swam inside the wreck following the diver in front for maybe 10 min. Upon exiting, the first thing I see is the dive guide and a 2-3 of divers, including my dive buddy, starting to swim away from the superstructure, over the debris field amidships, while ascending at an angle. I follow. A couple of minutes later I'm in a complete blue water, the wreck is no longer visible, I can barely keep up with the group kicking against strong current in my short travel fins. Since we are ascending gradually, have to pay constant attention to the depth gauge.

Another 3 or so min later I don't see anyone or anything anymore, trying to follow the direction we were going, while kicking at full force. Pressure is about 1000psi, maybe a bit more, I'm overconsuming. A few minutes later I'm fully considering deploying an SMB and doing a drifting safety stop, where finally I see the anchor line with about 10 divers on it, blowing like flags, horizontally, in the current.

All is well that ends well. When I questioned the guide on what happened, he said one of the divers became low on air, and they had to bolt to the anchor line without communicating with the rest of the group. We never found out if there was indeed a diver that signaled him that.

Now, there are some extenuating circumstances, of course. For one, it's an advanced dive site, and everyone going there are expected to have experience and a degree of self-reliance. Also, our dive group was considered the most advanced out of the 3 groups on the trip, we always enjoyed longer and more demanding dives than the other 2 groups, and perhaps the guide would not have done what he'd done knowing that there are less experienced people in the group. But, the whole thing brought me at the edge of my comfort zone, which very rarely happens. I can see how this situation could have resulted in at least some people from the group not reaching the line and being blown away in the dusk.

This is the kind of thing I question.
You guys had experience and you knew what to do. But what about someone who might be just under the mark to be able to handle something like that on their own?
Over reliance on a dive guide could get ugly if something goes sideways.

 

[Pressurehead]

We just recently had the national championship competition in scuba here in Finland.

Is there a video of this event ?
Did a search on Dr Google and found out a lot about Suomi , but not much about this championship except this:


For what it is worth [4/5ths of 5/8ths of bugger all, I suspect] , I do not consider SCUBA diving a sport.

 

[scubadada]

Hi @Scuba-74

This was your December trip on the Tillis?

 

[Scuba-74]

Hi @Scuba-74

This was your December trip on the Tillis?

Yes, it was

 

[Scuba-74]

This is the kind of thing I question.
You guys had experience and you knew what to do. But what about someone who might be just under the mark to be able to handle something like that on their own?
Over reliance on a dive guide could get ugly if something goes sideways.

All 8 people ended up making it to the line. But they all were experienced divers. Three with just under or over a 1k dives. The least experienced diver, with about 100-120 dives was with a very seasoned buddy, a divemaster, and they ended up not penetrating the wreck at all, just hovered around the entrance/exit. I'll venture a guess that even some people on that very boat would be in distress if that happened to their group.

What about them? Based on my own personal experience, there is one or two dives in a diver's career that make or break them. And they happened to me quite a few years back. One ended with doing a decompression stop drifting in blue water. Another, with taking off my BCD at the bottom and untangling it from a flag line while solo hunting. I've learned self-reliance, and appreciation for risks, from these.

 

[Leatherboot69]

I would suggest that longer, more expensive and more complex open water training would reduce the number of people who take up diving. From what I’ve read, diving took off as a mass market when PADI modularised previously much longer training, reducing the barriers to entry for people who just want to dive casually on holiday. A tiny percentage of those will go on to become divers ‘like us’ (I guess I’m one of them… Discover Scuba Dive in Greece, 2022). If it was commercially viable and there was a market for it I assume the diver training agencies would be doing it.

Diving with a guide… I’m a DM with well over 100 dives, and I still dive with a DM when I’m on holiday (unlike home waters) because they know where everything is, or because it’s a local requirement; my wife is a casual holiday diver and she literally *only* wants to look at turtles. So yes, we play follow my leader whilst I keep an eye on my wife. I’m not the only DM or instructor I’ve met in similar circumstances - I just think it’s best not to make assumptions?

My wife is a good example of the sort of casual diver we’re talking about - she can keep herself safe, stay within NDL and not run out of air if she’s buddied up with a more experienced diver in good conditions like she was trained in, but that’s about it. She does no more than ten easy dives per year and that’s about as far as she wants to develop. *And that’s ok.*

 

[NothingClever]

Is there a video of this event ?
Did a search on Dr Google and found out a lot about Suomi , but not much about this championship except this:


For what it is worth [4/5ths of 5/8ths of bugger all, I suspect] , I do not consider SCUBA diving a sport.

That poor lady at 00:40 is using lasagna noodles for fins.

 

[boulderjohn]

From what I’ve read, diving took off as a mass market when PADI modularised previously much longer training, reducing the barriers to entry for people who just want to dive casually on holiday.

I am unaware of this. Could you provide details? Pray be specific as to what exactly was changed and when it was changed.

 

[DunningKruger]

You can call a dive at any time: in bed, on the boat, in the water, whenever.

I was faced with just this dilemma a few days ago. I am here diving in Fakarava, French Polynesia. Overall I've been happy with the dive service and their dive masters. I'm still very new <30 dives.

One dive involves holding on to the bottom in the current before dropping into "Alibaba Canyon" in the North Pass. The DM's instructions were "let me know when your computer says you have 5 minutes of NDL remaining." I did exactly that and got the OK sign in return. But time was ticking and before we the group got started on the ascent (and into the current) my computer went into deco mode (3 minutes at 3 meters). Fortunately it cleared during the ensuing ascent and safety stop. I would have preferred to go up earlier, but doing so would have put me into the current and flushed me well away from the group. Not the end of the world I know, but undesirable from a pickup logistics standpoint. I was also deep into my gas reserve by the time we got to the surface.

Had I been diving on my own with a buddy we wouldn't have cut it nearly this close. But I suspect the DM's computer was less conservative than mine and she never had it go into deco. She'd done this dive enough to know how it would all play out.

I'm headed back to that same site again next week and this time I'll have a more in depth discussion with the DM about this.

Comments and criticisms encouraged.

 

[Scuba-74]

I was faced with just this dilemma a few days ago. I am here diving in Fakarava, French Polynesia. Overall I've been happy with the dive service and their dive masters. I'm still very new <30 dives.

One dive involves holding on to the bottom in the current before dropping into "Alibaba Canyon" in the North Pass. The DM's instructions were "let me know when your computer says you have 5 minutes of NDL remaining." I did exactly that and got the OK sign in return. But time was ticking and before we the group got started on the ascent (and into the current) my computer went into deco mode (3 minutes at 3 meters). Fortunately it cleared during the ensuing ascent and safety stop. I would have preferred to go up earlier, but doing so would have put me into the current and flushed me well away from the group. Not the end of the world I know, but undesirable from a pickup logistics standpoint. I was also deep into my gas reserve by the time we got to the surface.

Had I been diving on my own with a buddy we wouldn't have cut it nearly this close. But I suspect the DM's computer was less conservative than mine and she never had it go into deco. She'd done this dive enough to know how it would all play out.

I'm headed back to that same site again next week and this time I'll have a more in depth discussion with the DM about this.

Comments and criticisms encouraged.

How did the ascent look like? Was it one of those drift dives when the guide shoots the sausage and everyone ascends together around him/her?

If so, I don't think you could have done anything differently. You communicated what the guide asked of you. The fact that her computer could have been less conservative doesn't matter, she knew that you were approaching your NDL. The only thing you could have done differently is try and stay shallower than the group if you knew you were the first one to hit the mark.