Disturbing trend in diving?

[therookie]

No, but it really helps.

For example, as a competitive swimmer you get so much chlorinated water up your nose over time, that if it happens during the mask clearing exercise you just shrug it off as another day in the pool. It can really sting though, and send an unprepared person coughing and spluttering to the surface (with the attendant risk of AGE).

Very good point. Actually now that I think about it after your post my wife has specifically commented on this as being something that concerns her - water up the nose if something happens with the mask (and why she is so quick to try to clear it when snorkeling if even a relatively small amount of water gets in).

 

[therookie]

My sympathies. Her aversion is fear based, and that's probably never going to change.

You may be 100% right - both she and I recognize that as a distinct possibility.

 

[therookie]

I think just go for it. A two person DSD, just you, her and your instructor. If your instructor is worth their salt they’ll start you off gently and work safely within her level of comfort. In easy conditions, directly supervised, taken slowly and with no one else around her, there is very little that goes wrong. And if she feels uncomfortable she can slow down or go to the surface, and if she feels really uncomfortable she can call it. Ultimately who cares about disturbing trends - this is only about you and her and what you want to get out of it.

Thinking about it more, my wife and her instructor may very well decide it is in her best interest to just be the two of them and send me off with the rest of the dive group to not add any more pressure on her. And as much as I would LOVE to be right there for her first dive, if that's what they decided, I would be 100% behind it.

The way this shop often does DSDs the instructor and "discoverer" are at the same site anyway and occasionally even in view of the rest of the group, so at least I could eyewitness a little from afar...

 

[TMHeimer]

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Which is why in an OW training dive you can have one instructor to eight students, in up to 18m of water. In DSDs limitations are imposed to ensure safe practice: they only do one pool/CW dive (which is effectively the first pool dive of OW, if conducted to OW standards, which is not mandatory) and thus are limited to 12m in easy conditions within 2 weeks of their pool dive, 1 DM to 2 customers, and (I think) can only dive with the instructor and/or DM who conducted their pool dive. Sounds like legit safe risk management to me

Back when I was a working DM (10 years ago) the ratios for DSDs was one instructor to 4 divers maximum. One DM to two divers maximum. I don't know how one instructor can be at arms length to 4 different student divers, which was the rule. I wouldn't question the DSD's safety if it were one to one.

 

[therookie]

I wouldn't question the DSD's safety if it were one to one

This makes sense to me, too. From my reading it seems like the current standard for the optional open water DSD dive it must be supervised by a fully qualified instructor (as opposed to a DSD instructor which seems to be a DM with some additional training, they are not permitted to supervise an OW DSD dive, just pool and confined water?) with a maximum student to instructor ratio of 2:1. But please, if someone out there knows differently, correct me.

My own DSD experience (related in a prior post in this thread) emphasized for me one possible risk of that 2:1 ratio - I was 25 feet down, obviously not in arms reach of the instructor, and the other student was with the instructor at the surface. So what was he to do? Signal me to come up probably would have been the recommended course, but if I came up too fast or something not knowing (or remembering in the moment) any better, or out of concern for what may have been happening at the surface... there was potential for Bad Things to Happen.

So he made a judgement call, probably based on his previous interaction with me, and as it turned out all was well. But if I had also had an issue at the same time while alone at the bottom... totally different outcome all around.

As a result of my experience, in our case if my wife ever does a DSD, I will make sure she is one-on-one with the instructor.

 

[TMHeimer]

This makes sense to me, too. From my reading it seems like the current standard for the optional open water DSD dive it must be supervised by a fully qualified instructor (as opposed to a DSD instructor which seems to be a DM with some additional training, they are not permitted to supervise an OW DSD dive, just pool and confined water?) with a maximum student to instructor ratio of 2:1. But please, if someone out there knows differently, correct me.

My own DSD experience (related in a prior post in this thread) emphasized for me one possible risk of that 2:1 ratio - I was 25 feet down, obviously not in arms reach of the instructor, and the other student was with the instructor at the surface. So what was he to do? Signal me to come up probably would have been the recommended course, but if I came up too fast or something not knowing (or remembering in the moment) any better, or out of concern for what may have been happening at the surface... there was potential for Bad Things to Happen.

So he made a judgement call, probably based on his previous interaction with me, and as it turned out all was well. But if I had also had an issue at the same time while alone at the bottom... totally different outcome all around.

As a result of my experience, in our case if my wife ever does a DSD, I will make sure she is one-on-one with the instructor.

Not sure about the exact rules for a DM since I never did a DSD, but I do recall the instructor ratio was 1:4. May have changed? But, what you describe is exactly what I was talking about. Someone bolts to (or for some reason is on) the surface and the instructor has to leave one or the other. I know the Chairman said he's never seen that happen so it is a rarity for sure, but in your case, the "arms length to all student divers" rule had to be broken. One to One ratio solves that 100%-- but maybe that's not very financially profitable?

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

How about doing some snorkeling? Just face down with mask on and breathing through a snorkel does wonders.

More likely to be attacked by sharks (kidding, not kidding).

In all seriousness, I think snorkeling is a great way to start. Now if even that makes them nervous, then I'd recommend the mask/snorkel skills that are derived from what @Peter Guy taught me. Teaching Neutrally Buoyant and Trimmed -

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Very good point. Actually now that I think about it after your post my wife has specifically commented on this as being something that concerns her - water up the nose if something happens with the mask (and why she is so quick to try to clear it when snorkeling if even a relatively small amount of water gets in).

I used to be in charge of getting people through the mask R&R drill for their OW when I was a DM candidate.
That's the toughest skill for the huge majority of people. Your nose and face is uncovered but you're supposed to breathe. It goes against every human animal instinct we have to try and breatbe when your face is submerged.
For the people that had the worst time with it I had a system. First I would take them to the shallow end where we could work on it away from everyone.
I would start by having them flood their mask just partially and just breathe. Then have them flood it a little more (not covering the eyes yet) and breathe. I had a slate that said "You're breathing air with your nose underwater right now, no big deal right?". To which they agreed.
I also made it clear before we started that they could just stand up and be out of it if they absolutely had to.
Next step was to flood the mask completely even if it took a few more partial floodings to get there. Once their mask was totally flooded I had them just continue to breathe.
At that point I would pull my mask away fully flooded and let it settle back in place fully flooded.
I was doing the whole drill with them so they could follow my lead. after a time or two of that we would remove the mask and just breathe. They realized that there was no difference breathing with the mask off than a partially flooded mask. Your nose is useless underwater. I would get them to relax, which they were already because of so much gradual work towards getting the mask fully off. If they freaked out and couldn't take it any more I'd have them shut their eyes and concentrate. A lot of times this would work. If not then I'd have them shut their eyes and hold their nose until they calmed down, then they could slowly let their nose go and slowly open their eyes.
Once they acclimated and got the hang of it they did fine. It's a total mental game and gaining power to overcome instinct, that's all it is.
When you're diving normal wearing your mask there is always going to be a few drops or maybe a teaspoon or tablespoon of water in the nose pocket, enough that if your were to suck it up into your nose it would be very uncomfortable. But we breathe and don't think about it because we can see and the rest if our face is dry. But really there is no difference. It's all mental.