Disturbing trend in diving?

[Scuba Lawyer]

I have seen this exact follow the dive guide and trust him/her implicitly in all aspects of the dive many times. It is usually when I'm somewhere tropical on a non-diving trip and sign up to go out for a two-tank boat dive for a morning. I've never seen it on a liveaboard. However....

A few years ago I was on a 3-day trip on one of our local dive boats in Southern California to the Channel Islands. We all woke up on day one anchored on our first dive site. Call me weird but I have a habit of never doing the first of the six or more dives scheduled for the day. I love the quiet time with everyone gone and the boat, sea and a cup of coffee all to myself. Anyway, the divers all gear up quickly and giant stride into the water. 75% are diving solo which is very normal on the boat I go on.

Wait, two fully geared up divers, a husband and wife, are still sitting on the bench. Each has a pressure guage but no computer, depth guage, watch, compass - nothing. The captain asks why they are not getting in the water and they say they are waiting for the dive guide. In a very polite manner, and using safe non-curse words, the captain explains to them that this is f*****g California and the boat doesn't have no stink'n dive guides. These folks were utterly shocked. The took off their gear and didn't dive once during the 3-day trip, threatening to sue for lack of a dive guide, calling the rest of us unsafe, bad divers in not diving with a guide, and accusing the boat owners of "incompetent staffing. " That last one made us all laugh. They had c-cards (I won't mention the agency out of political correctness and each boasted of 100's of dives in the Caribbean over many years, albeit all with a dive guide monitoring every aspect of their dive for them. A few probing questions revealed they had zero understanding of how time, depth and pressure affected the human body, zero concept of why you never hold your breath while ascending, zero navigation skills.... Wow!

The fact such people exist and have not Darwined out of the gene pool, amazes me. That said, I really have no point to my ramblings other than to agree with Eric that yes, trusting a dive guide with all aspects of your dive/life/happiness is a "thing." Not my thing, but a thing nonetheless. My 2psi. M

 

[Nemrod]

Many places in the Caribbean will have a guide. Sometimes you are supposed to stay with the guide as is the case (I assume) in Cozumel in the marine park. Other places in the Caribbean, you can dive on your own or follow the guide, it matters not. But there often is a guide. People are using the dive guides as a crutch. And since quite often it is the dive customers who account for the crew and dive guide income via tips then telling people they cannot dive without this or that really cuts into their income. All of the crews and DMs I have dived with in Cozumel have been fine divers and take their job seriously but I have heard instructions given to stay with and above me. Most divers have the equipment, they just do not know how to use it, charge it (trying to find the USB charge socket on a Peregrine!), maintain it or change settings to match the gas or anything about what any of the "readings" mean. "James, we are just not into the details of it" and so off they go, above and with the DM. And besides, they usually blow through their air quickly and then are sent up (the DM will launch a sausage), the boats picks them up and then the guide gets serious about finding me critters and we have a wonderful second half. I kind of like the system . And while attending an open house pool day I have heard an instructor to advise his students to always stay with their guide. Yeah, many take their three hour cruise through Basic SCUBA and come out thinking there is a guide supplied always.

 

[Belzelbub]

The trend seems to be that these divers in question don't have computers or depth gauges/any kind of timing device and rely 100% on the divemasters to take care of them and keep them safe.
Is this a thing?

Unfortunately, it does seem to be a thing. Goes against everything I’ve ever been taught. I was always taught to rely on my own gauges (later computers) and not to assume my profile matched that of a buddy or DM to keep me safe.

I really can’t wrap my head around blindly trusting someone I just met like that.

That said, for some of these divers, it may be the best option. I’m talking about people who only dive on a vacation/cruise excursion. They probably don’t have their own gear or computers. So, even if they have a rental computer in their console, they likely don’t know how to use it.

 

[Anish]

Im used to diving in Asia, where guided dives are the norm. I am still uncomfortable diving without one and I don't like the insta buddy concept (and I am usually solo so don't have a regular dive buddy). My main concern is getting lost unless it's a very simple wall with no drift or something like that. The dive guide frees me from navigation duties and lets me enjoy the marine life. However, I can't imagine not having my own computer, SMB, SPG etc and depending on anybody for life safety. Ive been on many liveaboards and all have had great dive guides. Can't really imagine getting on a boat without one. I do understand its different in other parts, especially the US.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I have seen this exact follow the dive guide and trust him/her implicitly in all aspects of the dive many times. It is usually when I'm somewhere tropical on a non-diving trip and sign up to go out for a two-tank boat dive for a morning. I've never seen it on a liveaboard. However....

A few years ago I was on a 3-day trip on one of our local dive boats in Southern California to the Channel Islands. We all woke up on day one anchored on our first dive site. Call me weird but I have a habit of never doing the first of the six or more dives scheduled for the day. I love the quiet time with everyone gone and the boat, sea and a cup of coffee all to myself. Anyway, the divers all gear up quickly and giant stride into the water. 75% are diving solo which is very normal on the boat I go on.

Wait, two fully geared up divers, a husband and wife, are still sitting on the bench. Each has a pressure guage but no computer, depth guage, watch, compass - nothing. The captain asks why they are not getting in the water and they say they are waiting for the dive guide. In a very polite manner, and using safe non-curse words, the captain explains to them that this is f*****g California and the boat doesn't have no stink'n dive guides. These folks were utterly shocked. The took off their gear and didn't dive once during the 3-day trip, threatening to sue for lack of a dive guide, calling the rest of us unsafe, bad divers in not diving with a guide, and accusing the boat owners of "incompetent staffing. " That last one made us all laugh. They had c-cards (I won't mention the agency out of political correctness and each boasted of 100's of dives in the Caribbean over many years, albeit all with a dive guide monitoring every aspect of their dive for them. A few probing questions revealed they had zero understanding of how time, depth and pressure affected the human body, zero concept of why you never hold your breath while ascending, zero navigation skills.... Wow!

The fact such people exist and have not Darwined out of the gene pool, amazes me. That said, I really have no point to my ramblings other than to agree with Eric that yes, trusting a dive guide with all aspects of your dive/life/happiness is a "thing." Not my thing, but a thing nonetheless. My 2psi. M

You can name the agency, I won't tell anybody. Let me guess, does it start with P and end with I ?
Oh wait, I heard or at least am kept being told that it's all about the instructor and not about the agency.
Anyway, I don't get out much as many or most of you have probably gathered. I've only done two trips away to warm water and one was GBR for a one day high speed boat ride out to the reef from Port Douglas, and Kona HI a few times.
Both places I was asked where I was from and what kind of diving experience I had, and they gave my gear a quick eyeballing. I explained, and in both cases the divemasters told me OK you can do what you want but just keep us within eye shot. So I wandered around with my trusty Nikonos and did my own thing.
But that was a long time ago, I have not left the state to dive in 25 years. Maybe a lot has changed.
For boat liveaboard stuff I take my tropical vacations in Socal. I'm used to the boats where the pool is open and they don't give a damn how you dive, solo, no bc, you're on your own. I was a member of the Sea Divers for several years (Chris Grossman) and this is exactly how they dive. So I thought this was normal.
Now I feel really weird.
I don't know if I belong here?

 

[lexvil]

I have seen this exact follow the dive guide and trust him/her implicitly in all aspects of the dive many times. It is usually when I'm somewhere tropical on a non-diving trip and sign up to go out for a two-tank boat dive for a morning. I've never seen it on a liveaboard. However....

A few years ago I was on a 3-day trip on one of our local dive boats in Southern California to the Channel Islands. We all woke up on day one anchored on our first dive site. Call me weird but I have a habit of never doing the first of the six or more dives scheduled for the day. I love the quiet time with everyone gone and the boat, sea and a cup of coffee all to myself. Anyway, the divers all gear up quickly and giant stride into the water. 75% are diving solo which is very normal on the boat I go on.

Wait, two fully geared up divers, a husband and wife, are still sitting on the bench. Each has a pressure guage but no computer, depth guage, watch, compass - nothing. The captain asks why they are not getting in the water and they say they are waiting for the dive guide. In a very polite manner, and using safe non-curse words, the captain explains to them that this is f*****g California and the boat doesn't have no stink'n dive guides. These folks were utterly shocked. The took off their gear and didn't dive once during the 3-day trip, threatening to sue for lack of a dive guide, calling the rest of us unsafe, bad divers in not diving with a guide, and accusing the boat owners of "incompetent staffing. " That last one made us all laugh. They had c-cards (I won't mention the agency out of political correctness and each boasted of 100's of dives in the Caribbean over many years, albeit all with a dive guide monitoring every aspect of their dive for them. A few probing questions revealed they had zero understanding of how time, depth and pressure affected the human body, zero concept of why you never hold your breath while ascending, zero navigation skills.... Wow!

The fact such people exist and have not Darwined out of the gene pool, amazes me. That said, I really have no point to my ramblings other than to agree with Eric that yes, trusting a dive guide with all aspects of your dive/life/happiness is a "thing." Not my thing, but a thing nonetheless. My 2psi. M

Heaven forbid someone help them

 

[Scuba Lawyer]

I was a member of the Sea Divers for several years (Chris Grossman) and this is exactly how they dive. So I thought this was normal.
Now I feel really weird.
I don't know if I belong here?

I know Chris and have dove with him (well, at least off the same boat into the same ocean with him) many times. I dive with the Sea Divers at least once a year off the Peace out of Ventura Harbor. Just signed up for the Sea Divers annual 3-day Lobster trip in October. You sound like the rest of us who learned to dive in the cool water, kelp forrested, game-rich, current-laden California waters that we call home. Our dives are not touristy hand-held dives. If there were a dive guide we'd leave them to fend for themselves as they peer through the proverbial exhaust bubble dust we kick up as we head out alone and into the unknown. I do realize that there are shops in California where you can hire a guide and they will introduce you to the wonders of underwater California. I'm all for that if you are unfamiliar with our waters. However, even then I'd expect the hirer of the guide to be a fully competent self-sufficient knowledgeable diver. So, yes Eric, you definitely belong to the brotherhood and sisterhood of California Divers!

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Very first dive was a resort course on St Thomas in 1990, the instructor was very good, the dive was beach dive, loop around the little aquarium. Did two more boat dives with the shop the next day. Came home and got certified. Knowing what I learned in certification, I probably would not have done the second two dives for sure. You don't know what you don't know until you learn it. Also you don't know what you like to you try it. I think there are many dives in many locations that are well suited for DSD dives, and other locations where this is a very bad idea.

There are lots of old guys on this board who learned to dive with their dad's or uncle's gear, a watch and depth gauge and 60-60 for tables.

...But at least they had a watch and a depth gauge and knew what 60/60 meant.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Heaven forbid someone help them

You mean by loaning them computers?
It sounds like they didn't own one and therefore probably didn't know how to use one either.
The boat should have done a better job of screening this couple and told them to either hire a guide or learn to be self sufficient between the time of sign up and the first dive.
I don't know what they're teaching these days but that's a pretty big thing to leave out.

So this is why (IMO opinion) someone who learned on tables would have a clue about depth and time, even though it would have been square profiles. The way they hammered the info just by default meant that the concept was ingrained because you had to put pencil to paper.
So if those two had originally been taught tables they would have thought differently about what they were doing in the context of personal empowerment.
Even if they didn't have computers at least they would have had a depth gauge and timing device and they could have at least gotten wet.
If they didn't have computers, what makes you think they would have depth/timing devices you ask? Because when you learned tables you were also taught how important depth and time is and never to forget that stuff.
Yes I know computers are the way things are now, I have one too. I'm just sayin that maybe the old way of knowing a table isn't the most worthless thing ever. It developed a "core understanding". Using a computer on top of that understanding is just gravy, a cherry on top!

 

[OMyMyOHellYes]

I've been somewhat taken back by the amount of hand holding offered in past warm water trips....

Don't touch my stuff. I'd rather do it myself.