Disclosure of health conditions to dive ops/fitness (thread split

[drrich2]

I have myself done this when I went to a doctor who thought I shouldn't dive. I called DAN & connected my doctor with a dive medicine doctor. After review, they both agreed I could dive.

So, let's say your clinical condition remained the same, your risk factors, estimated probability of an adverse outcome, all that the same as it was, but...the dive medicine doctor were more conservative and agreed you shouldn't dive.

Same issues & risk; only difference was somebody (in this case a Physician) told you 'no' instead of 'yes.' What would you have done?

Richard.

 

[KevinNM]

No one gets out alive, and if you dive and don't have their future well planned (if you are the sole or main breadwinner) then you are negligent. Speaking as a dive operator, no one needs know my medical history. The last freedom available to us is to die our own special way. That did not, BTW, stop me from asking about someone's medical history. I expected them to lie, and I was hardly ever disappointed.

I remember you talking about how people, mostly married guys with kids, who both misled their wives as to how dangerous the kind of diving they did was and their lack of life insurance was the main cause of terrible lawsuits against operators. Desperate women with young kids who have some shyster tell them they can get them enough money to raise the kids.

 

[NYCNaiad]

So, let's say your clinical condition remained the same, your risk factors, estimated probability of an adverse outcome, all that the same as it was, but...the dive medicine doctor were more conservative and agreed you shouldn't dive.

Same issues & risk; only difference was somebody (in this case a Physician) told you 'no' instead of 'yes.' What would you have done?

Richard.

I know the answer to this because I came to this conclusion before the dive medicine doctor spoke to my doctor. If I had 2 different solid doctors tell me I shouldn't dive & 1 of them was a dive medicine doctor, then I'd see if there was anything I could do to change the condition even if it was was risky (e.g., a surgical procedure). If there wasn't anything I could do, I would stop diving. Period.

Because I am not objective in this case. The doctors are.

If it was just risking myself, that's one thing. But I'd be risking my family's finances. Risking the emotional & physical well being of the divers, the dive shop & the rescue folks. (This is true even I dived solo though there are perhaps fewer people involved.) To me, putting others at risk in this way is too much of a selfish thing to do even though having to stop diving would crush me & likely put me into a depression I don't know if/how I could recover from.

 

[Charles2]

To me, putting others at risk in this way is too much of a selfish thing to do even though having to stop diving would crush me & likely put me into a depression I don't know if/how I could recover from.

Perhaps those "others at risk" would consider it selfish to deny you the freedom to make your own choices. Just maybe they are self sufficient enough to endure your injury or death. Just sayin'.

Scuba, like many other activities, carries with it a level of risk. If one is not prepared to deal with the possible adverse outcome (whether their own or others), one should not participate.

 

[sunshower]

I know the answer to this because I came to this conclusion before the dive medicine doctor spoke to my doctor. If I had 2 different solid doctors tell me I shouldn't dive & 1 of them was a dive medicine doctor, then I'd see if there was anything I could do to change the condition even if it was was risky (e.g., a surgical procedure). If there wasn't anything I could do, I would stop diving. Period.

Because I am not objective in this case. The doctors are.

If it was just risking myself, that's one thing. But I'd be risking my family's finances. Risking the emotional & physical well being of the divers, the dive shop & the rescue folks. (This is true even I dived solo though there are perhaps fewer people involved.) To me, putting others at risk in this way is too much of a selfish thing to do even though having to stop diving would crush me & likely put me into a depression I don't know if/how I could recover from.

Perhaps those "others at risk" would consider it selfish to deny you the freedom to make your own choices. Just maybe they are self sufficient enough to endure your injury or death. Just sayin'.

Scuba, like many other activities, carries with it a level of risk. If one is not prepared to deal with the possible adverse outcome (whether their own or others), one should not participate.

This can be debated endlessly. It's a personal decision. And doctors may not be as objective as we'd like them to be; they may err on the side of caution because of litigation risk. From my perspective, if you're going to lie on the form and take extra risk, you should at least be sure your affairs are in good order in case your number comes up. No need to force others to involuntarily take extra risk.

 

[Wookie]

Perhaps those "others at risk" would consider it selfish to deny you the freedom to make your own choices. Just maybe they are self sufficient enough to endure your injury or death. Just sayin'.

Scuba, like many other activities, carries with it a level of risk. If one is not prepared to deal with the possible adverse outcome (whether their own or others), one should not participate.

Completely off topic, and I will delete if asked, I had my number of fatalities in 17 years of operating a liveaboard. I had crew so severely affected they never came back. I'd just wrap the body and heavily sigh because of the massive paperwork and inevitable second guessing we would get off of the internet, which is actually why I joined ScubaBoard. I hope I go while diving, not in a bed surrounded by blubbering loved ones.

 

[Charles2]

Completely off topic, and I will delete if asked

Feel free; I'm not asking; just going along to get along.

 

[Wookie]

Feel free; I'm not asking; just going along to get along.

Not your post, mine. Someone took offense to something in the thread I said yesterday.

 

[2airishuman]

Even if you plan your future well, a $125,000+ financial hit with no insurance coverage to cover any of the costs can still be devastating.

Why not get better insurance?

I don't think you or I will be able to convince the other to change their mind, but I just don't get why keeping medical info private is worth the risk to someone's life or their family's finances.

I don't see how a difference in what is disclosed affects the financial picture.

We all take risks, financial and otherwise, every day.

My family's financial well-being is at greater risk if I come home from work with a pink slip than it is if I come home from a dive trip in a cardboard box.

Unless the diver shouldn't be diving & that's why they are lying. And then, I have a bigger problem with it because when they are hurt, have an accident or die, it also emotionally effects the people involved in the rescue & the dive, & can also possibly hurt/kill others who are trying to save the diver. I hope I can dive for a long time, but if I am ever unfit to dive, I've already made the determination I won't dive. I love & live for diving. And at one point, I thought my health would preclude me from ever diving again. But I personally think it would be selfish of me to continue to dive if I was unfit no matter how much I love it knowing how it could emotionally & physically affect others.

You speak of being "unfit to dive" as though there is some sort of bright-line distinction between people who are "fit to dive" and "unfit to dive." There is not. Reasonable people disagree on what reasonable risk may be. It is your choice to defer to the medical professionals of your choice, and good for you. Others may choose differently.

Who knows what the future would have held for the deceased diver who is the subject of this thread. We can only speculate. It strikes me as unlikely that he would have lived to be 102 and died in a rocking chair at home surrounded by friends and family.

 

[Dan G]

There is an article that touches on this in the latest Alert Diver.