Disadvantages of DIR ?

[Snowbear]

Donating from the mouth...

I was taught the method as an alternative configuration by my YMCA OW instructor ...

I teach it to my students as an alternative method, and I don't teach DIR.

The instructor and I demonstrated this in a PADI OW pool session the other day

 

[Mako Mark]

I cant believe this thread is still going. I tip my hat to all those that havent gotten bored out of their skulls. This topic has been rehashed more times than I have rotomilled the resort diver briefing.

 

[MikeFerrara]

To my concern, the most important aspects of DIR aren't about gear. It's the planning, preparation, and attention to team, the use of standardized gases within certain depth ranges, the "on the fly" calculations (and the knowledge that's necessary to understand why it works), the emphasis on practicing your skills regularly, and the overall attitude of top-down safety that sets DIR apart.

It's certainly not the gear. Although that's an important aspect of the overall system, you can learn how to use a hog rig without knowing a single thing about DIR ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

These p[oints aren't specific to DIR either. As I see it DIR is a specific implimentation of team diving. The procedures that are part of this implementation are heavily dependant on the equipment. You can't use a different basic configuration and apply DIR procedures. You can't rig or mark a stage or decompression bottle differently and follow DIR procedures.

I'm afraid that what most divers think of as being DIR are just the basic skills taught in a DIRF and that's what they are is basic skills that do little more than prepare a diver to learn the meat and potatoes of the system.

Without the equipment configuration and skills that they specify the whole thing falls apart because the procedures specified can't be used.

 

[RichLockyer]

I like to wear my light on my right hand. By definition, that makes me as much "not DIR" as the person who's wearing a standard regulator configuration.

You can hold your light in the right hand. This would be normal while scootering, and is the reason for the thumb-loop on the Explorer handle.

Every single tech agency out there teaches you to do that ... and most have been doing it since long before DIR was conceived.

Are you 100% positive on that? I can't say from first-hand experience with all of the various tech agencies, but it seems to me that I see a lot of short hoses used as primaries with backups on long hoses stuffed into bands on the main tanks.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Are you 100% positive on that? I can't say from first-hand experience with all of the various tech agencies, but it seems to me that I see a lot of short hoses used as primaries with backups on long hoses stuffed into bands on the main tanks.

No ... I'm not 100% sure of anything. But I can tell you that the divers I associate with who are trained DIR, NAUI, and IANTD all wear their primary second on a long hose, donate the long hose, and wear their safe second on a bungee around their neck. In fact, about the only variation in gear config that I can see is that some of them will wear a deco bottle on their right side.

All of which really goes wide of the point at which I entered this part of the conversation ... that of telling someone who's on their 5th dive after OW that wearing an octopus is "scary", and as far from DIR as you can get. It's really not ... sadly, I see examples of people a lot farther from DIR than any gear issues far too often ... and from the conversations I read in here, many of you do too.

What Mike said is true ... but what I was talking about is the relevence of applying that to someone who said she only had five dives since OW.

Until GUE comes out with their OW course ... and develops some kind of track record with it ... discussions about divers not being DIR at that level are really rather pointless.

Likewise, discussions involving being "as far from DIR as you can get" are rather pointless ... as you are either completely DIR or not at all. So any non-adherence to any aspect of the system makes you "as far from DIR as you can get".

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MikeFerrara]

Are you 100% positive on that? I can't say from first-hand experience with all of the various tech agencies, but it seems to me that I see a lot of short hoses used as primaries with backups on long hoses stuffed into bands on the main tanks.

The three (IANTD, NACD and TDI) tech agencies that I have experience with give you a choice although an individual instructor may not.

IANTD presents several different configurations and some pros and cons. BTW JJ wrote the section in the IANTD "tecnical Diving Encyclopedia" on the hogarthian configuration. Both that text and the NACD (probably the NSS manual too but I don't remember) cave diving manual have a good bit of discussion on the arguement over whether to breath or stow the long hose.

A major difference in approach is that IANTD attempts to teach students how to evaluate an equipment configuration. Part of the process is choosing and evaluating their own. Where as GUE pretty much gives it to you and tells you the reasons for it.

Note, I'm not trying to make a case for either here but rather just state the difference.

 

[mempilot]

Are you 100% positive on that? I can't say from first-hand experience with all of the various tech agencies, but it seems to me that I see a lot of short hoses used as primaries with backups on long hoses stuffed into bands on the main tanks.

Both my IANTD and TDI instructors teach the long hose. I don't recall if it was in the text or not, but I think it was. I'll have to go back and check it when I'm back in town.

 

[RichLockyer]

that of telling someone who's on their 5th dive after OW that wearing an octopus is "scary", and as far from DIR as you can get. It's really not

Point made.
Nobody is going to be DIR at 5 dives. Few will be at 50. That doesn't mean that they are unsafe and should not be diving or they'll die, they just have a lot to learn.

 

[novadiver]

The three (IANTD, NACD and TDI) tech agencies that I have experience with give you a choice although an individual instructor may not.

IANTD presents several different configurations and some pros and cons. BTW JJ wrote the section in the IANTD "tecnical Diving Encyclopedia" on the hogarthian configuration. Both that text and the NACD (probably the NSS manual too but I don't remember) cave diving manual have a good bit of discussion on the arguement over whether to breath or stow the long hose.

A major difference in approach is that IANTD attempts to teach students how to evaluate an equipment configuration. Part of the process is choosing and evaluating their own. Where as GUE pretty much gives it to you and tells you the reasons for it.

Note, I'm not trying to make a case for either here but rather just state the difference.

I was told in my NSS-CDS course that the reason for useing the long hose as your primary reg is" in a zero viz, out of air emergency your dive buddy has the right to remove your primary reg and use it for themself " . So it would make sense that the long hose is the primary and the doner reg.

 

[Dan Gibson]

Rich,

I don't believe this is quite what GUE is teaching now. You still carry the light in the left hand. It is switched to the left temporarily when necessary so you don't flash your light all over the place. The thumb hold is just for convienience so you don't have to get off the throttle when scootering. Other than that, it is carried on the left hand. At least this is what I learned from David Rhea last December.

Carrying it on the right (and the additional chord wrapped) really stinks in an OOA. I have been involved in drills with someone who learned this way in the distant past from JJ and I get blinded every time. It's a lot quicker to keep it on the left. It's even stranger to watch a left hand donation.

In fact, I got somewhat of an chewing out from David during Cave 2 for carrying my backup in the right a little too much. It was just a bad habit and I had to break it during the class or the light would immediately be removed.

Dan

You can hold your light in the right hand. This would be normal while scootering, and is the reason for the thumb-loop on the Explorer handle.