Disadvantages of DIR ?

[The Fresh Prince]

Feel free to add me to the list of the "non respected" because I can't see anything DIR has brought to the table that wasn't already here, but then I learned to dive with a horse collar and a weight belt.

If anyone knows of a single peace of gear ,please let me know.

technique and attitude go hand in hand in any industry.

Rest assured if I ever see a GUE DIR diver raise a grain of silt I will yell stroke as loud as I can. Just for the benifit of the rest of the dive world.

Does JJ know about the rep. his org. is getting? It doesn't seem like a good buisness practice to have your members alienate everyone in the industry.

I don't know you Novadiver, but for someone who is so obviously anti-DIR and is never willing to explore the training to replace internet conjecture with personal experience, why do you feel so obligated to post so frequently in the DIR forum? You could have easily given one post to the original premise of this thread and let it go. Instead, you consistently perpetuate this theme. Let it go. If you have no interest in DIR, that is okay. Your constant rebuttals put you into the consistant whining poster category of Karl or Indigo.

 

[MASS-Diver]

I don't know you Novadiver, but for someone who is so obviously anti-DIR and is never willing to explore the training to replace internet conjecture with personal experience, why do you feel so obligated to post so frequently in the DIR forum? You could have easily given one post to the original premise of this thread and let it go. Instead, you consistently perpetuate this theme. Let it go. If you have no interest in DIR, that is okay. Your constant rebuttals put you into the consistant whining poster category of Karl or Indigo.

I agree. enough is enough - you are clearly threatened by DIR, fine we get the point.

 

[AlaskaDiver]

This has all the makings of celebrity death match:

In the red corner, Dweeb and O-ring, in the blue corner Novadiver and H2Andy.

Isee this as one of the primary disadvantages of DIR, that everyone seems to take themselves so seriously on the pro and con sides of the fence. Lighten up, this is about diving, it is supposed to be enjoyable.

Also because it hasnt been around for 30 years like some other agencies, it has limited geographical coverage, accessability and this creates the impression of "exclusivity" which can be misinterpreted as elitism etc. I think it needs the myths busted open. there is too much mis information about it.

Bravo! I'm new to DIR and I couldn't agree more with what you have said. I'd love to see the instructor's egos put aside for a bit and the focus put on the diving technique to be gained by the students.

 

[GDI]

While there is persistence on some divers to continually slam DIR and its pricipals, the same rebuttals from DIR divers results. If you choose to criticise DIR then do so after taking a honest look at their system first. DIR although not perfect has done some good in the diving industry. A review of basic skills, retail through equipment sells, in short the controversy caused by DIR has not hurt diving one bit. There are no new secret scuba skills, only secret hand shakes. MY choice is to have fun with my "DIR" counter parts. Afterall our aim is the same - To produce better safer divers.

 

[novadiver]

I don't know you Novadiver, but for someone who is so obviously anti-DIR and is never willing to explore the training to replace internet conjecture with personal experience, why do you feel so obligated to post so frequently in the DIR forum? You could have easily given one post to the original premise of this thread and let it go. Instead, you consistently perpetuate this theme. Let it go. If you have no interest in DIR, that is okay. Your constant rebuttals put you into the consistant whining poster category of Karl or Indigo.

You just can't make soup without stirring the pot, I'm here to do a service for all divers. I'm not anti DIR , I would like all divers to learn The DIR techniques without being called a rototilling,quarry killing,bus licking, stroke! ,

That would make me "let it go".

Please tell me that the resort cert was a joke!!!

 

[novadiver]

Don't take it personal. I'm one of you. LOL. However there are so many totaly stinky divers out there that the stigma rubs off. I have to admit that the divers with GUE training and I know a bunch exibit a much more consistant level of skill especially in a recreational setting. If you go to cave country it's a bit harder to stop them. Most cave divers with any experience are pretty good in the water. In OW it's reversed and few are any good at all and I say that as some one with no GUE training. They have put the bar up there.

They didn't invent much. They have come up with some pretty neat dive planning simplifications though that are worth their weight in gold though.

No, most of the equipment configuration was there already and handed down by the old guard...guys like Bill Main and Bill Gavin. The first back plate was hammered out buy a guy who was at the time a student of Sheck Exley's...Greg Flanagan.

I'll stay out of that one.

This is a good question and I can't answer it. I can tell you that I was a Halcyon dealer and I've had several chances to talk to JJ on the phone and met him once in person. He seems like a knowledgeable, down to earth rather freindly guy.

There are a couple GUE instructors that I've spent a little time with...diving and eating and I'd say the same for them. There's another couple of GUE instructors that I've had a little contact with and they seemed ok too. The ones I've seen in the water were good and JJ is just flat out slick.

And then of course there are the lemmings. Pay no attention to them unless it's to teach them a freindly lesson.

And again I'm humbled by your wisdom, you must be one hell of a good instructor.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Not having a bungeed backup reg around your neck is about an non-DIR as you can get. I'm not trying to put you down or anything - but any octo (along with not donated from your mouth) is about as non-DIR as you can get.

Gee ... and here I thought "it's not all about gear" ...

If you think that where you place your safe second is "about as non-DIR as you can get", then I submit that you've missed most of the major points of DIR.

The gear is the easiest, and most easily correctable, part of the entire system ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Dan Gibson]

Modesty is a wonderful thing. :snore:

I'm here to do a service for all divers.

 

[MASS-Diver]

Gee ... and here I thought "it's not all about gear" ...

If you think that where you place your safe second is "about as non-DIR as you can get", then I submit that you've missed most of the major points of DIR.

The gear is the easiest, and most easily correctable, part of the entire system ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I disagree, while the problem may be easily fixed, it's a HUGE issue. Don't kid yourself - having the right rig is very, very important with regard to DIR diving. No matter how skilled you are if you are diving with an unsafe setup like this one you are NOT DIR. Donating from your mouth is one of the most basic tenents of DIR - if you don't do so, you are not even close to doing it right. This a major point of DIR - I would suggest that you have missed this most critical teaching that makes DIR different from other systems. Having a bungeed backup is not a small detail.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I disagree, while the problem may be easily fixed, it's a HUGE issue. Don't kid yourself - having the right rig is very, very important with regard to DIR diving. No matter how skilled you are if you are diving with an unsafe setup like this one you are NOT DIR. Donating from your mouth is one of the most basic tenents of DIR - if you don't do so, you are not even close to doing it right. This a major point of DIR - I would suggest that you have missed this most critical teaching that makes DIR different from other systems. Having a bungeed backup is not a small detail.

Well ... the hog rig is a part of the DIR system ... and separating any single part from the system makes what you're doing, by definition "not DIR". I like to wear my light on my right hand. By definition, that makes me as much "not DIR" as the person who's wearing a standard regulator configuration.

But that's not what I hear you saying ...

Donating from the mouth is NOT what makes DIR different from other systems. Every single tech agency out there teaches you to do that ... and most have been doing it since long before DIR was conceived. I was taught the method as an alternative configuration by my YMCA OW instructor ... well before I ever heard of DIR. I teach it to my students as an alternative method, and I don't teach DIR.

So please ... don't make it out to be something that's unique to DIR. It's not.

It is also not inherently "unsafe" to be using a standard configuration, wherein one donates the octopus. At least not under basic, recreational conditions.

What would make it unsafe is if you don't practice OOA drills regularly, don't service your equipment on a regular basis, and don't check the functionality of your octopus prior to every dive.

The same can be said for the rig you and I both dive.

Now ... if you want to talk about going into restricted spaces with a rig like that, I'd agree with you that you're not adequately configured for the type of diving you're planning to do.

To my concern, the most important aspects of DIR aren't about gear. It's the planning, preparation, and attention to team, the use of standardized gases within certain depth ranges, the "on the fly" calculations (and the knowledge that's necessary to understand why it works), the emphasis on practicing your skills regularly, and the overall attitude of top-down safety that sets DIR apart.

It's certainly not the gear. Although that's an important aspect of the overall system, you can learn how to use a hog rig without knowing a single thing about DIR ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)