DIR, WKPP, GUE, and Halcyon Part 1 of 3

[jbd]

may have changed since the DIR-F classes are certification classes now(at least I think they are now). When I took the DIR-F class this past June I used my jacket style BC on the first diving day. I did have a long hose configuration on my regulator. That was all that was required of me. The second diving day I borrowed the whole shootin' match. Didn't do too well with the BP/wing set up. I took the class to learn and did not seek certification.

What is taught in the DIR-F class is not rocket science and the skill level displayed by the instructors and staff at these courses is indeed attainable by all who wish to do so. The whole purpose of this class is to make the participants aware of the skill level and information needed to dive with a high degree of safety in all dive environments. Once you see and hear what you need to know then it is up to you to practice, practice , practice until you get it right.

 

[JohnF]

Stephen Ash once bubbled...
No...sorry.

Its just that I must give creedance to what ghof has to say now that I know who he is. Who he is may mean little to you. If he wishes to tell you who he is then that is up to him.

I still stand by what I said. I just do so with respect for all parties involved...ghof included.

It has been over a year since that particular DIRF and the fellas here that originally posted about that class had nothing but good things to say about it. For some of them it was inspiring and caused much introspection into their own diving abilities. None posted anything other than praise for the instructors and the class.

Nevertheless, if ghof says that he was let down, then let down he was. I don't believe that he is trolling. I believe that he is sincere in his assertions.

I still feel like the instructors have their hands tied on this one. Really, all they can say is that they are sorry that ghof was disappointed and offer to make it up to him in some way.

I would also guess that in the year since that class, MHK and others have worked to improve the class and in doing so, honed their presentation so that it is even more rewarding for the student.

One more guess...in the year since that class I bet that not only has the instructors' view of the class changed but also their view of themselves.

SA

I suppose we could say that ghof is the exception that proves the rule. I'm not being facetious when I say that either.

I suspect that more than a little of the doubt that gets voiced here and otherwheres about whether it's possible for GUE et al to be so truly amazing and flawless arises from the neverending praise that all the participants in GUE events and courses heap on the concept and the presenters. It does sound a little too good to be true sometimes and it's kinda reassuring to hear that once in a while even the GUE guys can have a zit on the end of their beak. Mebbe they're human after all. 8)

JohnF

 

[ghof]

Gentleman it has been fun to push a few buttons. SA you are an eloquent spokesman. It was nice to read your responces. JohnF you made me chuckle, I enjoyed your posts as well .
JBD you hit the the bulls eye with your posts. It is not rocket science and should be attainable by any healthy person that tries without even a little attitude. See you at the Driftwood next summer.
GHOF over and out

 

[Big-t-2538]

Second what GHOF said....

JBD is spot on....the stuff ain't all that hard, and it isn't something that shouldn't be taught in BOW....however, they make you get things right, and by right, I mean flawless before you move on.

 

[WJL]

I was in ghof's Fundamentals class in July 2002. If anyone cares to check, there are several long threads in the archives from people who participated. One thread was started by Lost Yooper, ghof's son. I think it is fair to say that most of the rest of the class, including Lost Yooper, had very different perceptions of the class than ghof.

Ghof may be sincere, but he is not accurate in many of the statements he made earlier in this thread. For example, the instructors did not spend three hours on Friday night memorizing the class members' names. Yes, the instructors tried to learn all 12 names. This was done as part of their interaction with each class member in trying to learn their diving background and experience, and to ask them what they hoped to learn in the class. The instructors spent most of the time Friday night explaining GUE, concepts of DIR diving, buoyancy and trim, discussing equipment configurations, explaining and demonstrating different kicks, and covering other topics. I am surprised that ghof found this to be a waste of time. I think he is alone in this opinion.

At the quarry on Saturday morning I know that ghof had some sort of problem locating a replacement crotch strap. I don't know what the problem was with his original crotch strap. I was under the impression that he had removed it from his rig himself, but I don't know that for sure. I do know that he was asking around for a replacement strap, and I remember him saying later that morning that he had taken care of the problem. I was not buddied up with him, so I can't speak from personal knowledge, but I thought he found a strap and used it in when he did his dives in the class. The statements he made in this thread are the first I heard that he tried to dive his rig without a crotch strap. I personally find that hard to believe. I don't think the instructors would have let him do it.

My impression was that ghof did not become seriously unhappy in the class until Sunday afternoon. At that point, after two days of diving and video debriefs, it was clear that many of the class, ghof included, had problems maintaining correct buoyancy and trim, and were not particularly skilled with their kicks. On Sunday afternoon, Andrew delivered a lecture on gas management, and concluded with some discussion and interaction with the class on where we would like to go with our diving. In response to a comment or question from ghof, Andrew suggested to him that although ghof had made hundreds of dives, many to 200+ feet and many wreck penetrations, he should consider confining his dives to shallower depths and stay out of wrecks until he improved his skills. Ghof did not make any comment about this in the class, but in later email messages from him, I had the impression that he felt that he had been insulted and personally attacked by this adivice.

I accept that ghof doesn't like Andrew and Mike. I suppose their personalities don't mesh. His antipathy, however, has distorted his recollections of the class.

 

[detroit diver]

I too was in that class with ghof and WJL.

Let's get a couple of things straight.

The instructors DID NOT spend 3 hours memorizing names. That would have been stupid. What they DID do was to get to know everyone in the class and the reasons that those students chose to be in the class. They did this while going thru (very thoroughly) all of the why and wherefores of the DIR principles. It was very detailed and very informative. It gave the reasons behind all of the stuff they were going to teach.

Second, my recollection of what happened to ghof was that he came to class with a crotch strap that did not fit AND WAS NOT ADJUSTABLE. I don't know if it was left on or removed, but in either case, that is one bullsh*t excuse if I've ever heard one. It make keep your rig a bit more secure, but it won't affect your bouyancy. There were people passing this class with stab jackets-ever see a crotch strap on one of those?

What's really going on here IMHO is that ghof was exposed to some real deficiencies in his diving. That can be really hard on a guy who has boasted about doing 200 ft dives in the Great Lakes. In fact, his son (who he dove with often) was so affected by what he learned and what he didn't know that it completely changed his diving. Lost Yooper (the son) used to be a huge internet proponent of DIR. He found out during this class that what he knew about DIR was either incomplete or misinformed. Do a search on his name and you will find an eye-opening account of this class and the effect that it had on him. Not long after, he stopped posting on this board.

Ghof- instead of making crotch strap excuses and blasting the instructors, why don't you instead look at what was taught in the class and the reviews that EVERY OTHER participant posted. Each one was very complimentary of the way the class was run and the volumes of information that was learned. Then you might realize that the problem was not the class and not the instructors. It may have been the student.

 

[BCS]

As one of the attendees of this course, I'd like to echo WJL's message in that Ghof's assessment and feelings of the course may be true in his own mind, but are way off the mark in regard to accuracy.
Three hours memorizing names...hmmm. That is more than what other classes spend in an entire course's classroom/academic portion...period. Bravo AG and MHK!! Way to go above and beyond the call of duty!
Seriously, the purpose of the introductions and the "memorizing" of the names was to prepare you for the following days activities by educating you in the methodology behind GUE's education/training system. The student's names were repeated by Mike and Andrew in an effort to help not only themselves learn everyone's names, but also the other class participants as well. If one pays attention in between the names you'll hear the instructors speak about the differences in teaching ideology of GUE and the instruction that the students had received up to that point in their diving careers. It is only used to contrast and explain why we do things the way that we do.
Honestly Ghof, I cannot recall the issue with your crotchstrap and will not get into a pissing match about it because it is really immaterial. As to any other equipment issues, ppppp. The responsibilty of proper equipment is on the student. It is well spelled out what is recommended for the course. If the student is not prepared for the class equipment wise, well I am sorry, but that is the fault of the student. There are just far too many resources available to come to a GUE course ignorant of the equipment requirements. I honestly have a hard time accepting that someone was ignorant, but rather more often what hapeens is that they are resistant to change. Understandable. I was there too and had to deal with the changes just like you. Having said that, nearly any equipment (even yours Big T...) can be used by a skilled diver and the desired results of the DIRf class can easily be achieved.
The equipment we recommend greatly facilitates this, but is not the only factor in the ability to perform well in this course.
My personal belief is that experience and knowledge are the real key players in performing well in this course. Understanding the dynamics of the equipment/diver/environment relationship is essential to proper trim, buoyancy control, and good propulsion technique. That knowledge is given to you in the classroom and with the right attitude, the experience plays a symbiotic role with the knowledge.
I have found that for divers with much experience, this class is a very accurate mirror. This is how I looked at the class when I took it. What I mean by this is that, for many divers it is an awakening to their own true skill level, not the one they believed they possessed, based on their card collection or their dive log filled with dives that were obviously beyond their level of skill. For many, the class causes them to adjust their diving, drop it down a notch or three and train to achieve a skill level that allows for a safer, more enjoyable diving experience. This is not always easy to face, but for those with a good attitude it is understood and accepted and they do move on and work towards thier goals... without excuses. After all, diving is about enjoyment and safety. Diving to 200'+ in the Great Lakes, inside of a wreck without the ability to hold your depth...much less, with a missing crotch strap... is contradictory to safe diving practices. Right? It is to me, and knowing how accidents begin by a small incident that causes a chain reaction resulting in a very bad day underwater, it's just not worth it to compromise the safety of me and/or my team because my ego will not accept the fact that I do not possess the necessary skills to accomplish that dive safely.
They (nor I) are not the diving police and are not telling you what to do. BUT you paid them to teach you. They (nor I) will not cheat the student, even if it means a small blow to the students ego. They gave you their honest assessment of your diving. Period. They were spot on. If you wanted to have your ego stroked, you paid the wrong guys...and honestly, it is coming across this message board that you are upset because you came into the class with a good amount of "deep, technical" dives and thought you'd show them a thing or two...but that wasn't the case. You had a bad day...chalk it up to a learning experience. Move on. In the world of diving, you are not alone when it comes to this class. The vast majority of students are extremely challenged by it, but they learn much and move on to benefit from the experience.
Change the attitude, lose the ego, practice, and open the mind...diving will become more enjoyable and safe and those dives will become well within your capabilities.
Have you ever noticed how much fun and educational any class is when you go into it with a good attitude and realize that you have much to learn, that the people teaching it have much to offer towards that end, and that they are very eager to share their knowledge and experience? The result is an extremely enjoyable and rewarding experience....for all involved...and regardless of whether or not the student embraces the ideals of GUE/DIR.
So what happens if one continues to have a bad attitude? Well, I have found that they end up posting excuses on Scubaboard...Just my observation...and my $0.02...fwiw.

dive safe!!----- brando

 

[Big-t-2538]

BCS once bubbled...
Having said that, nearly any equipment (even yours Big T...) can be used by a skilled diver and the desired results of the DIRf class can easily be achieved.

You haven't seen the latest "big-T-rig-job" of his stab jacket....should be good "show and tell" for your class this weekend....at least the "this is not what to do or who to associate with" side of the discussion anyway

I'm looking forward to seeing you again on Saturday....should be some good people up at the quarry (some people from cincy are coming up for a dive or two too)


WJL, DD, BCS, thanks for the report from the class last summer. I can see how ghof might have been offended, and his opinion is just fine, I'm glad the rest of the board also got some enlightenment as to what else happened in the class....or as UP puts it from time to time....TROTS....


Thanks again all, ghof included...

 

[GreenDiverDown]

Here's a link to Bob's (wb416) site...

http://www.bayareadivers.net/wb416/reports/GueFundamentals.shtm

 

[BCS]

See you there Big T!!
But I have to warn you that you cannot surprise me with your gear configurations/gadgets/gizmos/etc...remember I teach this DIRf and have travelled across the country doing so...I have been accosted with various equipment apparitions that would fill the minds of most DIR divers with nightmares for a lifetime...honestly, it sometimes gets to me...but I reach down deep inside and find the courage to move on...accept what I cannot change and use every bit of strength I have to change what is within my power to change......seriously Big T...I am looking forward to seeing you and to stand in awe at your immense improvement. Just to see how you've taken the materials we've given you and just ran with 'em to achieve new levels of mastery and skill that will boggle the mind!!:wacko:
Please stop by and I hope you can make it out to dinner w/us Saturday.
And you are absolutely right, everyone most definitely has a right to their opinion. I am only sorry that Ghof did not have the rewarding/enjoyable experience that nearly everyone has taken away with them from the DIRf classes that MHK and AG (and Dan MacKay too!) teach. But I think that has more to do with Ghof than the instructors....and that is only my opinion.
Take care and dive safe!!---brando