DIR wars...Is it the name?

[OE2X]

the fact that there is ONE approach to gear setup,
Ron

The reason for this is to keep everything simple amongst your dive team. If your configuration is identical then it is one less issue to be concerned with when you are in an emergency task loaded situation. It is an effort to reduce mistakes that can be made if your buddy has a different configuration. I've personally seen this happen on a few different occasions.

I hope this helps clarify why we choose to configure our gear this way. I also welcome you to ask me any questions about DIR. I will answer them to the best of my ability and if I'm at a loss, then I will put you in touch with others that can.

 

[pipedope]

Just telling it like those who were there did. Obviously it wasn't all yelling, but there was no sugar coating, and they were plenty mean (the guy who taught at chem school has been called mean by most everyone who knows him.) I've spoken to people who attended all three academies who also report they were hard on students.

It seems to me you are going by second hand information.
I was in the last class in Nuc school in Orlando that used sliderules. The instructors were not mean and did not pick on the students in any significant amount. There simply wasn't time. As you pointed out, we did the majority of a 4 year degree in nuclear power engineering in 6 months. The think that was hard was the fact that there was very little time to fix any problems. For people who learned quickly it was cake.

I never met anyone who attended all three academies.
I can tell you that USNA (United States Naval Academy) was the toughest program I have ever experienced. I was in the class of 1983.
USNA, 200 years of tradition unimpeded by progress.

 

[RonFrank]

They knew, they just won't admit it. The trick around these parts is to teach a simular type of course and tell potential candidates why take a DIR-F course when I can teach one that you'll pass

R U suggesting the LDS dive shops knew about DIR? As a matter of fact, most did. However none offered the DIR-F class.

I did find one shop that used some GUE training, but certification was NAUI. It would appear that while this shop teaches some DIR for TRIMIX for example, the idea of informing a technical diver with 1000+ dives under his belt that does not own a BP/WING combination that he must purchase new gear to quality for a TRIMIX course that he is fully qualified to take may not sit right...

For me diving is a hobby. IMO if one is in a complex unexplored cave at 100'+ the term "DIR" just does not apply at all no matter how many DIR classes one has passed.

Ron

 

[boomx5]

IMO if one is in a complex unexplored cave at 100'+ the term "DIR" just does not apply at all no matter how many DIR classes one has passed.

Ron

How often do you do those types of dives?

 

[bwerb]

Actually...NWGD is a great example...(allow me Bob...)

I know that his initial impression of DIR was very much tainted by a few individuals who "missed it" and were on the "exclusive club" mentality approach to DIR...you know...the "we rule, you all suck" kinda guys. This then led to some rather heated and deleted postings on this and another board. It is really neat that eventually, actually getting in the water with a series of DIR divers who truly exemplify what it is all about eventually swayed Bob to try this DIRF thing out for himself.

Lo and behold...leading by example and not bluster/bravado is what tends to influence people ultimately...no amount of "preaching" can open ears which have been closed. It is only the demonstration in a completely non-confrontational way which tends to start to break down the walls bit by bit.

Unfortunately, in far too many cases, people allow their emotions to prevent them from ever having the opportunity to step around the blusterers and have some quality time with the true practitioners. It is also sad that such a great system does have a rather interesting gauntlet to run for those who are unable to separate practice from promotion.

 

[Dan Gibson]

But Mike, do all of them really hammer it home? I would hope they do, but from what I have seen, I just can't help but wonder if several of those students had instructors that just really didn't care enough to fail them. How can anyone really become that complacent or forget how to really calc 1/3s? Were not talking about a simple math error. This was much bigger than that. IMO, the wrong mindset alone should disqualify someone from passing a cave class. I know if my attitude was anywhere near what these guys displayed, David, would have flunked me on the spot if not kicked mt butt all the way out of Florida. Failing the class would have been bad, but not nearly as bad as the !#$chewing I would have gotten for putting my team at risk.

I know you have seen some crazy stuff down there as well. This is just a simple example. Where are people learning this stuff? Or better yet, why aren't they learning how to do things properly?

I think the magnitude of their folly might be lost on many in this forum because most divers aren't taught gas matching. As far as I know all the cave agencies teach it though so unless those 2 divers really had a shlock instructor they don't have much of an excuse.

 

[Nomaster]

Maybe you could chalk it out for me?

How does a marine biologist working in DSRVs and underwater habitats become and indicator of the industry wide recognition of a recreational (non-commercial) dive entity?

Um, a person with scads of exposure because of their position in the underwater world? Maybe?
I'm a relative newby, so it's not a surprise that I never heard of DIR before I began reading this stream of invective.
Don't know, maybe it is good for marketing safety, people hate what the acronym "DIR" stands for, but people's awareness of safety is heightened and some attempt to emulate DIR's and others' higher standards.
Could be a good thing.

Tom

 

[bwerb]

people hate what the acronym "DIR" stands for,

I'll say it...I don't...

If there is a great way of doing something. If it is safe. logical, well thought out, works in practice, simple, and makes diving more fun...then sign me up for doing it right.

Much of the diving I was doing before was definitely wrong...I'll start with being overweighted and of the belief that a drysuit was for bouyancy, splits were the latest and greatest in fins, more D-rings=better diver, the Seaquest Raider was a decent "tech BC", the lightcannon is a decent HID, trim was something you do to the Christmas tree...hmm...actually...that one does have a familiar ring to it somehow...

 

[MikeFerrara]

But Mike, do all of them really hammer it home? I would hope they do, but from what I have seen, I just can't help but wonder if several of those students had instructors that just really didn't care enough to fail them. How can anyone really become that complacent or forget how to really calc 1/3s? Were not talking about a simple math error. This was much bigger than that. IMO, the wrong mindset alone should disqualify someone from passing a cave class. I know if my attitude was anywhere near what these guys displayed, David, would have flunked me on the spot if not kicked mt butt all the way out of Florida. Failing the class would have been bad, but not nearly as bad as the !#$chewing I would have gotten for putting my team at risk.

Good question and good points but I don't really know. Not being a cave instructor, my only experience with cave training is my own class. I do know that even the text makes it clear that the purpose for the "rule of thirs" is to turn the dive with a minimum of twice the gas that the team needs to exit and to do that you need to consider different size tanks and/or different starting volumes. There is little point to taking a cave class if you aren't going to leave with a thorough understanding of gas management. It's not like you can ascend if you run out or anything. Well, unless you can swim through rock. LOL

I know you have seen some crazy stuff down there as well. This is just a simple example. Where are people learning this stuff? Or better yet, why aren't they learning how to do things properly?

Diving has become big business. In order to make it sell the've tailored the promotion to better suit the potential buyers. After all, the ones who get killed can't go around telling every one how inadequate their training was. All the live ones are staisfied customers and all the non-staisfied customers keep quite about it. It's perfect.

 

[GDI]

Hey Mike how about this? This what My Open Water students learn