DIR wars...Is it the name?

[Spectre]

I really like the debates with, freefloat, soggy, O-ring, and cornfed. They seem to make the point in an adult maner.

Adult? Damn they got you snowed!

 

[GDI]

How do you figure this? Just becuz you are not DIR does not mean that you are a stroke or unsafe. Its not an either you are DIR or you area stroke type situation. We don't dive with unsafe divers, whether it they are not physically fit, they have bad gear configuration, they have an unsafe mentality or outlook, poor planning, or lack the training for the dive they are about to do. This would be unsafe in my mind, and so I do not dive with divers that i see possess this qualities. You can be a safe diver and not be DIR.

OK I can see this reasoning

Are you saying that GDI is DIR? That's news to me. Or I guess I could be mistaken.

I don't see why this thread has gone on as long as it has. If you DIR then dive DIR and with DIR buddies, if you are not DIR then why do you care if other divers will dive with you or not. Its an individuals choice who they dive with. SO let this thread die already!

Still consistent, But you are correct in using your definition of DIR, I am not DIR

OR!

Perhaps you are saying this? You consider me unsafe, unphysically fit, lacking good gear configuration, unsafe mentally with a poor outlook, use poor planning procedures and lacking the training?

Wendy, your wright (added the w for you) I got GDI mixed up with a GUE mod. my misstake.

you admitted your mistake in identifying me, this is good

I have read this thread from top to bottom up to this point. I have chosen not to get involved with it in any capacity other than what a Mod should do. On the times that I have posted within the DIR Forum WE have managed to keep things on a respectable level because We are willing to hear each other out and thus look, listen and learn from each other. My contact with GUE instructors has always been good natured. At times I have voiced differing opinions than those of DIR and I have supported their opinions.

I have no problem letting this thread continue, I will even get a second Mod to watch it. Maybe it will become the longest active thread in SB history. If it is going to continue then your statements need to be respectful to each other and within the TOS. Yes I will be the first to admit this is hard sometimes but give it a try.

PS. Wendy it's your option to answer my OR! question and
Novadiver that is sweet putting a "W" for Wendy I bet she liked that

 

[detroit diver]

I agree. IMO novadiver's post in the SPG thread would have passed without comment if made by any of the usual suspects. Like me for instance.

The problem arises when a new diver looks for information within the DIR forum, and he sees an answer from some person with "solo diver" parked right under his name. It's sends all the wrong messages, and causes problems further down the road for everyone that is truly DIR.

 

[dweeb]

Who says we don't share the goal. We agree on the goal. We don't agree that there is only one way to reach that goal.

But the goal is to find the right way. You can't go looking for what you don't believe exists.

That is why all the religion references. Many religions teach the way to get to heaven, but all of them teach that theirs is the only way, all other religions are wrong.

Actually, some don't. However, the point is, you can't teach one way and simultaneously accept one that contradicts it.

Saying Do It Right implies that it is the only way to do it. All others are wrong.

Exactly - it's called honesty. Anything else is dishonest. What you, and all the other people who get worked up over the name seem to miss is that they are SEEKING the right way. They don't claim to have found it.
They clearly state that DIR will evolve, but only on the basis of sound reasoning, never on the basis of tickling people's fancy.

How many of you have actually had a conversation/email exchange with GI?
How many have discussed a disagreement with him one on one? I have. He fully acknowledged that certain advancements in materials science, if and when they happened, would compel him to change his position on the issue we discussed.

I don't get worked up about your goals. Just stop calling my search for the goal wrong.

No one is calling it wrong for you to search for the best way. They may disagree with the direction of your search. Reading your comments, it's clear to me that you are wrong to believe you are even making the search, since you seem to deny the existence of what you claim to seek.

No human endeavor achieves perfection. All we can realize are approximations. The issue is which approximation best converges on the mark. The difference between DIR and those they most readily label 'strokes' is that the DIR people are involved in an organized effort to improve their approximation, whereas the ones they disagree most strongly with have given up altogether and chosen to just drift around based on what tickles their emotions, or what has the flashiest presentation.

It's like the difference in the automotive world between people who are concerned with suspension geometry and chassis rigidity and those who are most concerned with chrome ornamentation and how many colors of LED's are on the dash.

 

[novadiver]

The problem arises when a new diver looks for information within the DIR forum, and he sees an answer from some person with "solo diver" parked right under his name. It's sends all the wrong messages, and causes problems further down the road for everyone that is truly DIR.

I agree , but I didn't put solo diver under my name. and I also put in a disclaimer that I wasn't A "confirmed DIR diver".

The SB member that ask the question was a euro-padi diver. Which brings me to the question of " who can post in the DIR forum" . If it's for DIR TO DIR then the only answer anyone ever needs is a link to a GUE site. If it's for DIR to the world then I should be able to post.

As it stands now, I will not post in that forum. So who wins?

It truely is funny how the question in this thread was answered by a question in the DIR forum, Just my 2 psi

 

[novadiver]

But the goal is to find the right way. You can't go looking for what you don't believe exists.



Actually, some don't. However, the point is, you can't teach one way and simultaneously accept one that contradicts it.



Exactly - it's called honesty. Anything else is dishonest. What you, and all the other people who get worked up over the name seem to miss is that they are SEEKING the right way. They don't claim to have found it.
They clearly state that DIR will evolve, but only on the basis of sound reasoning, never on the basis of tickling people's fancy.

How many of you have actually had a conversation/email exchange with GI?
How many have discussed a disagreement with him one on one? I have. He fully acknowledged that certain advancements in materials science, if and when they happened, would compel him to change his position on the issue we discussed.



No one is calling it wrong for you to search for the best way. They may disagree with the direction of your search. Reading your comments, it's clear to me that you are wrong to believe you are even making the search, since you seem to deny the existence of what you claim to seek.

No human endeavor achieves perfection. All we can realize are approximations. The issue is which approximation best converges on the mark. The difference between DIR and those they most readily label 'strokes' is that the DIR people are involved in an organized effort to improve their approximation, whereas the ones they disagree most strongly with have given up altogether and chosen to just drift around based on what tickles their emotions, or what has the flashiest presentation.

It's like the difference in the automotive world between people who are concerned with suspension geometry and chassis rigidity and those who are most concerned with chrome ornamentation and how many colors of LED's are on the dash.

Has anyone seen my shovel, no the really big one, Oh it's with my boots..... thanks

 

[Wendy]

OK I can see this reasoning




Still consistent, But you are correct in using your definition of DIR, I am not DIR

OR!

Perhaps you are saying this? You consider me unsafe, unphysically fit, lacking good gear configuration, unsafe mentally with a poor outlook, use poor planning procedures and lacking the training?



PS. Wendy it's your option to answer my OR! question and
Novadiver that is sweet putting a "W" for Wendy I bet she liked that

Ok first I was under the impression that you are not DIR, which in mind is not the same as being a stroke. I do not dive with strokes. I didn't say you were a stroke, I just didn't think you considered yourself DIR. Make sense?

And I didn't really get why the "w" was added. Can you explain?

Thanks.

 

[FreeFloat]

nova, while I thank you for the compliment:

I really like the debates with, freefloat, soggy, O-ring, and cornfed. They seem to make the point in an adult maner.

it's statements like this:

Has anyone seen my shovel, no the really big one, Oh it's with my boots..... thanks

that spur certain people to make the 'non-adult' comments that they do. Perhaps comments that do not directly contribute to the topic of the thread should be restrained or re worded.........

 

[GDI]

Ok first I was under the impression that you are not DIR, which in mind is not the same as being a stroke. I do not dive with strokes. I didn't say you were a stroke, I just didn't think you considered yourself DIR. Make sense?

And I didn't really get why the "w" was added. Can you explain?

Thanks.

Hopefully no offense is taken. The point of defining DIR and strokes etc. I have never been trained by GUE instructors so with that in mind I am not "DIR" by that definition.
Given that I believe fully in maintaining mental and physical fitness, I do not smoke, I do drink but not when diving before or after, I always work on improving my personal skills (as I think every instructor and good diver should), I plan my dives and I teach my students to plan their dives. In fact I actually plan my dives to go beyond what their planned limits are. I am willing to experiment with new equipment designs, configurations, integrating equipment systems. And I am always open to finding a better way. Those who dive with me are usually configured in the same way with very little if any difference. I live and breath diving. Is that not Holistic, Having said that I believe that I am "Doing It Right". This is not quite the same as saying I'm DIR.

Under the DIR group of divers and their concept of the DIR definition (and there is nothing wrong with this definition) I am not DIR because I am not totally within their philosophy. I accept that DIR is their term for usage but it has no reflection on my skills, knowledge and abilities. I have been told by some GUE instructors that they respect my knowledge, skills and abilities but then I am not their target diver. We all agree that we need to develop divers from the start by having better skills, demonstrating those better skills, and developing those better basic skills.

The "W": Novadiver put a "W" on the word "right" saying he did that for you I wasn't sure why either you would have to ask him

 

[detroit diver]

I think you're missing an important distinction.

It's okay for a non-DIR diver to ask questions in the DIR forum of DIR divers. That is how one gains knowledge of something he/she doesn't know.

It's quite another thing for the ANSWER to come from someone that is not DIR. Not only could the message/answer be incorrect, but if it's allowed to continue then any message from that person could be construed as being always correct.

In your case, the solo diver tag (whether you put it there or not) tells someone that is looking for DIR info that solo diving is acceptable in DIR. Of course, nothing is further from the truth. That may not be the intended result, but it's never the less the perception regardless of whether you profess your non-DIR 'ness or not.

Just MHO.

I agree , but I didn't put solo diver under my name. and I also put in a disclaimer that I wasn't A "confirmed DIR diver".

The SB member that ask the question was a euro-padi diver. Which brings me to the question of " who can post in the DIR forum" . If it's for DIR TO DIR then the only answer anyone ever needs is a link to a GUE site. If it's for DIR to the world then I should be able to post.

As it stands now, I will not post in that forum. So who wins?

It truely is funny how the question in this thread was answered by a question in the DIR forum, Just my 2 psi