DIR take on drysuit.

[nadwidny]

I think the trilaminate dictate was from George Irvine. His argument was that rubber suits are to binding and that neoprene suits compress at depth, which give you the same buoyancy issues as wetsuits have.

My question would be, what about crushed-neoprene suits, such as the DUI CF200x? It has better insulating properties than trilaminate suits and doesn't crush at depth. Is the suit binding like a rubber suit?

Also, one of the other features is self-donning (front zip) as opposed to back zip suits.

CF200 is doable but way too heavy for those that travel. And if it matters it probably wouldn't pass the George test. It is more robust than the 350 and 450 but less flexible. Better insulating than the 350 or 450? Well maybe marginally. Beyond being thicker it has no inherent extra insulating capabilities since there are no bubbles in the material.

 

[DIR-Atlanta]

My question would be, what about crushed-neoprene suits, such as the DUI CF200x? It has better insulating properties than trilaminate suits and doesn't crush at depth. Is the suit binding like a rubber suit?

Trilam is preferred over CF200. Trilam dries much faster, is easier to leak test and repair in the field, and does not change buoyancy with depth (even CF200 will compress a little bit). As far as insulation goes - in most cases, the "insulating properties" can be more precisely controlled by the choice of undergarment and inflation gas, so there really is no compelling reason for the suit material to have to provide warmth.

For people who are concerned about durability, there are several overlay options available to provide reinforcement and additional strength to the material. I've never seen the point of that though. The TLS350 is almost indestructible - I have a (nearly) 10 year old TLS that is still going strong after hundreds of dives, mostly in caves. The only thing I've had to do to it is repair the neoprene boots and replace the wrist seals and zipper (both damaged as a result of "operator impatience"). Aside from those fixes it has performed quite well, and I can't imagine a CF200 doing any better.

 

[Meng_Tze]

For people who are concerned about durability, there are several overlay options available to provide reinforcement and additional strength to the material. I've never seen the point of that though. The TLS350 is almost indestructible -

I have had my TLS350 for just over 1 year...... had some leaks. Trilam is almost indestructible but when you go through some narrow passages it punctures/rips easily. The over lays on arms and predominantly legs do have a purpose.... wear and tear prevention of the suit when used in some narrow/low passages.

 

[lamont]

I just bought a CF200 on the theory that George Irvine doesn't dive in the PNW... ask me after another 250 dives if I still feel I'm smarter than GI3... =)

 

[TSandM]

This is one place where I do like Joe Talavera's take on things. His attitude is that there are things that affect the team, and things that don't. As long as my drysuit keeps me dry and I can stay warm, and it doesn't create significant buoyancy issues that I can't manage, what does it matter what it's made of? If I were part of a team doing a bunch of dives at different sites, having a slow-drying suit might be enough of a disadvantage to make me use trilam. Same if I were travelling extensively.

But for diving here at home, where the water is very cold and I can hang a suit up in the house to dry, my compressed neoprene probably is advantageous, in that it allows my "team" to stay in the water longer before I start shivering and call the dive

 

[all4scuba05]

I already have a shell suit that I don't plan on getting rid of. Maybe I'll go ahead and try the crushed neoprene to see if it helps with the cold dives. Even with the DUI 400 thinsulate I get cold in 40degree waters.

 

[TSandM]

I have to say that the compressed neoprene really seems to make a difference for me. I still get cold, but I do it more slowly.

 

[Adobo]

Is there a material type mandated? Trilam, crushed neoprene, etc...
Also what are some of the other requirements like pocket type. Bellows on both sides, no zippers?
DUI CF200X ok?
Does it have to be drygloves? if so which rings?

DIR means different things to different people. I personally have done a little bit of reading on this topic and this is what I found:

What GI says
If you look at what GI says, it is very clear. He insists that the TLS350/c400 combination is the best. And when he ran the WKPP, there was a time that this combo was all that he allowed in big dives. There were dives were the polartec stuff was pretty much acceptable.

Dave Sweetin wrote an article that seems to describe the configuration that GI used. It is posted in DUI's website:
http://www.dui-online.com/tech_tls_sweetin.html

Note: That article was written in 2002. Dave Sweeting recently sent out an email stating that recommendations are subject to change. As an example, they apparently have figured out what the problem was with the Apeks low profile dump valves. As such, that particular dump valve is apparently now a viable choice.

.

What JJ says (and by extension, what GUE says)
I haven't seen anywhere within GUE's standards and procedures where they specify brand or material. I will say though that in my fundies class, one of the guys was wearing a DC compressed neoprene suit with DC undergarment. The instructor did not characterize that suit as DIR or non-DIR. Rather, he talked about what things you want to look for in a drysuit. He talked about the pro's and con's about each material also. I think this is the notion of "thinking diver". Know why we use what we use instead of making decisions without knowing the rationale of why something makes sense.

What AG says
I dunno what AG says about this topic. I do know that he wears a DC Pinnacle 200 (crushed neoprene suit) with DC undergarments. Joe T. (partners with AG in 5thd-x) says that the stuff that affects the team needs to be standardized and needs to be agreed upon. Stuff that has no impact on the team essentially falls to personal preference. I bet the answer you get from AG, if asked, would not be that different.

HTH

 

[all4scuba05]

Thankyou. That was good info.

 

[xiSkiGuy]

It is more robust. . .

AG would be proud.