DIR-F Class

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

SeaJay,

You won't need the luck. This class will be without doubt the most enlightening class you will ever have taken.

Geez, I was just looking at some of your old posts. Wow, what a change! Glad to see that you're heading in the right direction.

Please give us a class report when you are finished.
 
SeaJay once bubbled...
I'm in. I've slept on it, and decided that this class is worth the additional couple of hundred bucks that I wasn't planning on.

Something tells me that this class will do things for me that, in the long run, will very much change my entire dive style... For the better. So I've decided, very much based on y'all's recommendations, that I need this course.

To help make this feel less expensive, I'm sending the $400 to the dive shop now, and I'll spend all of my travel expenses, including two overnight stays in hotels and all of the fuel, equipment rental, food, gas, etc., later during the class. That might help this to not be so painful to my wallet.

And it might help me to focus more on the class and not what it's doing to my wallet. :D

Wish me luck, y'all. :D Assimilation's almost complete. :D (Just kidding.)
Can't wait to hear your impressions of the class...how many other classes can you name that have such a high percentage of customer satisfaction? I don't think I have ever met anyone that took it and thought it was a waste of time or money..
 
I think taking the DIR class is a great idea. It will help you improve your skills and make you aware of the areas you need improvement. Hopefully one day I will be able to take a DIRF class.

Safe diving.

jason
 
Ok Jep...it's getting old... No one is gonna bite anymore, and now you're just positioning yourself to background noise where no one even reads your posts anymore.

God forbid you actually get in the water and get yourself something you want to talk about...
 
jepuskar once bubbled...
I will never take a DIR class because I dont need it. My diving skills are just fine for the type of diving I plan on doing...there is no need to spend even more money on a class that only helps the fanatics out there who believe this class is the mircale answer for recreational scuba divers.
As a skeptic myself, who ended up taking the class, I can promise you that there is room for improvement in ANYONE's skills. And better skills can benefit you in ANY type of diving you intend to do, even if it is just floating over a reef in 40' of water in a tropical climate.

jepuskar once bubbled...
All the skills you need to know are taught by PADI in their OW class..the problem is, most people never take the time to learn all fo the skills correctly. My bouyancy is fine, my equipment is fine, I am aware of my buddy at all times, I check my gauges, and I am comfortable in the water...I would know what to do in an emergency situation to help myself or my buddy......I dont need DIR to tell me how to dive.

I had a very good BOW teacher, and several excellent instructors in my various training efforts since then. And I still learned things in DIRF. It is an unwise man that feels that there is nothing left for him to learn...

jepuskar once bubbled...
Any class that tells you your equipment is not up to their standard and that you need to purchase their recommended equipment is brainwashing you from the start. JUST DONT DO IT! DONT MAKE THE MISTAKE THAT SO MANY OTHERS ON THIS BOARD ARE DOING ON A DAILY BASIS! SAVE YOURSELF AND YOUR WALLET!!

I was never once told that my gear was 'substandard' or that I should purchase their gear instead. Rather, I was given well thought out and insightful reasons why some of my gear may not be optimal, and why other types of gear might be better suited to me.

This did not cause me to run out and spend $$$ on Halcyon stuff, but the knowledge I took from the class does weigh heavily on all of my future gear considerations.

In the end, it is the diver's own choice as to what path they follow. I can't imagine someone following blindly, unless they are just that easily influenced. So, it could hardly be called brainwashing.

Perhaps those that resist so vehemently are just afraid that they will measure themselves and come up lacking?

Maybe we should start a collection to send Jep through a DIRF class? I bet we could make a small fortune selling copies of the tapes later....
 
I took the Fundy class in August in MA and it was a great class. Worth the 325.00 I paid for the class. We had 3 instructors and 3 interns during the class (8 or 10 people total). It may sound steep, but the amount of info is amazing.

Eric
 
Cave Diver once bubbled...
......
Maybe we should start a collection to send Jep through a DIRF class? I bet we could make a small fortune selling copies of the tapes later....

I wouldn't waste my money. It would be funny though!
 
First off I want to personally thank everyone for the kind and generous words about some of our previous classes, that was very kind of you guys and as you know we take your comments very seriously. We try to change this class and keep it fluid based upon feedback and comments from previous students so your thoughts are very much appreciated.

As to the initial post that prompted this thread, I hope I can shed some light as to how and why we arrive at our prices structure.

The basic design of the class is that we begin Friday evening at 6:00pm and end around 11:00pm. However in classes on the east cost it's probable that I leave my house at 4:30am west coast time to fly all day to arrive in time for the class and then teach until 11:00pm.

Saturday we begin at 8:00am and will teach until 11:00pm Saturday evening..

Sunday we start at 8:00am and teach right up until we need to leave for the airport, usually around 4:00 and then I fly back home which normally has me arriving at home after midnight on Sunday.

The basic fee is $225 per student for training, and then we add $75 per student for airfare and hotels.. When we first started doing this we would quote a direct price for airfare, but what we found out was that in between the time we quote an airfare and the time 12 students confirm the airfare increased so in an effort to avoid this problem we estimate that $75 covers it. Sometimes we make a few bucks sometimes we loose, at the end it usually a few bucks either way so it just makes it easier to establish a fixed fee at $75..

On top of that, if applicable, students need to pay for there own gases and/or quarry fees. Bear in mind these go directly to the shop or quarry that is supplying the air or the access to the quarry, we make not once cent on that. Also, if you are not local you will need to pay for your own hotel.. As it relates to Andrew and my room and flights, we generally share a room in the cheapest hotel available and we book the cheapest airfare we can find, even if that means we spend extra amount of our time using connecting flights and lay-over's. Trust me we aren't looking to make money on airfare, we try to provide the highest quality class in a manner that makes economic sense for everyone involved.

For my part, in all fairness, I'm a business manager for a living so the extra money that I make usually gets spent by my girlfriend anyway ;-), but in all candor Andrew teaches for a living and when he travels that is time spent away from his shop and when you break out the actual amount of time, and hopefully you'll agree that we provide a quality class, I think you'll see that we charge a fair price.

Also, Andrew and I [ please note this is our policy not GUE's policy] but both he and I have a policy that says that if you can honestly say that you've taken our class and didn't learn anything we'll refund your money.. We are confident that we provide excellent education, and we do try to be sensitive to economics, and if you feel that we wasted your time we'd rather not have you pissed off so we'll give you your money back..

Please feel free to call me if you, or anyone has additional questions. If interested my number is listed on the www.gue.com site in the instructor database..

I hope this answers your questions and thanks again to all that offered the kind words.

Regards,

Michael Kane
 
detroit diver once bubbled...
SeaJay,
Geez, I was just looking at some of your old posts. Wow, what a change! Glad to see that you're heading in the right direction.

Please give us a class report when you are finished.

I'll be thrilled to add another report to these already-awesome reports. I'll tell you everything. :D

I haven't gone back and read my previous posts recently, but I remember them... In fact, I remember that one of my earliest posts was very critical of the DIR "Nazis" as I called them... To say that the implication was insulting is an understatement. Thankfully, the regulators here on this board saw to it more appropriate to edit the "N" word than to kick me off the board completely.

I can't say that I completely regret my feelings at the time. The DIR message seemed like a harsh one, delivered very bluntly at the time, and seemed very counter to the PADI instruction that I'd already received. However, there were many who wrote me and told me to consider the message, and forget the delivery, and look further into the DIR methods. In the words of DIR guru George Irvine himself, DIR so much COINCIDES with PADI that his recommendation was for "Every diver to go back and simply reread the first chapter of the PADI Open Water I manual." I also got warm fuzzies when I heard him say that "People tend to think that they somehow need to achieve this 'higher order' of diving... Which there's not." In other words, the message was that DIR isn't about diving differently than what I've been taught so far... It's about taking what I've already been taught and reinforcing it and fine tuning it.

A real change in me, though, began to happen the day that I opened the PADI Advanced Open Water manual and began to read about the AOW certification. Within the first few pages of the manual, I was introduced to an "Advanced Open Water diver's rig," which included a long primary, a surgical-tube secondary, and a canister light. Suddenly, I was seeing that PADI and DIR were beginning to meld... If only in some of the gear configuration.

Then I did a little research about backplates and wings. I found them to be complicated to adjust and get "right," but once "tuned" properly, were the best available for most dive situations. To me, in the beginning, I found this adjustment problem overly-complicated, but the more I used my favorite alternative... The ScubaPro Classic Plus... The more I liked the clean, totally customizable backplate and wing. Things like pull dumps, flow-thru air cells, and Air II's, which had seemed so terrific at reducing task loading and simplifying gear, suddenly began to be less important, while proper BC fitment, modular reliability, and complete customizablity began to take precedence. What seemed so attractive before in "manufactured" gear began to give way to low-maintenance, low-trouble, reliable, "bulletproof" gear. Simply put, a new value had surfaced, with all of the diving that I was doing... The rig's ability to resist wear and stay dependable. This new value began to take precedent, I suspect, because of the sheer amount of diving I was doing. To put it bluntly, I was seeing so much dive time, that I was wearing a lot of recreational stuff out quickly... And so there was a new consideration that wasn't part of a newbie's consideration when purchasing dive gear.

But I think that my biggest realization came from doing a lot of diving... In all circumstances, and with lots and lots of other divers. The more I hung out and dove with other divers, the more I began to see some real problems not normally addressed to the degree that they need to be by the large certifying agencies. I watched divers stay up all night, drinking, before a 7am dive. I watched terrible buoyancy control be the "norm." I had many of my dives "called" because of rough water, windy conditions, waters colder than 75 degrees, or low vis conditions. And nine times out of ten, the Divemaster wasn't "calling" the dive because the conditions were undivable... He was "calling" the dive because the other divers' skills were so poor that they were unsafe to dive in anything but perfect conditions. I can't fault the Divemaster's decision to "call" the dives... The problem didn't fall in the Divemaster's realm. The problem fell in the realm of the lack of skill and planning of the other divers. I saw people terribly out of shape, with high body fat, low muscle mass, or in poor health due to high fat diets, drinking and smoking all night, lack of sleep, or other preventable problems. I saw divers who think that because they hold a c-card, they're safe to dive, even though they hadn't dived in over six years. I've had them ask me, "When the [Divemaster] does that sign, what's that mean?" (He was referring to the "okay" sign.) Simply put, I've done enough dives to see that this sport... Which I am taking so seriously... Is being treated like a toy by 90% of divers. In most shops, what most of us think of as "life support" was being sold on the same walls with the beach balls and children's swim wings. It just seemed that most people "just didn't get it."

In many instances, I've been made fun of by other divers for wearing a wetsuit, for example, when waters are above 70 degrees. They look at me and laugh and say, "The water's warm... What's your deal? You just wanna look like a Power Ranger?" Of course, their scuba dive, to a whopping 30 feet of fresh water, lasts about 20 minutes before they're cold and want to lay in the sun with a beer. I, on the other hand, spend two tanks at better depths exploring a cavern and the fossils, and maybe feeding the fish in complete comfort. They go home with bloody knees that they hit on the rocks in the shallows, and I go home having been protected from that and the jellyfish and all of the other waterborne things to be protected from.

I volunteer for the Aquarium in Charleston... And it's a blast. I am a certified Rescue Diver for the local fire company's Dive Rescue Team. I love what I do, and I love to dive. But while it's great fun, I don't think of it any more as a "toy" as would be driving a car on a racetrack, skydiving, or motorcycle racing. Sure, it's great fun, and that may be the point. But it's not to be taken lightly, and it's definitely not a toy. It's something to be serious about, to enjoy, and to live a lifestyle to, that will agree with the potentially dangerous sport of scuba diving. It's a whole way of life that I'm seeing people take entirely too lightly... And enjoy it much less than I do.

...So I'm gravitating towards those who think like I do. And those people seem to be DIR divers. These seem to be guys who so much love the sport that they live a lifestyle condusive to the sport of diving. They wish to push the envelope and do things that other divers only dream of. They wish to be the best they can be. They want to hone their skills and be better today than they were yesterday. I'm attracted to that, and repulsed by the drunk diver who jumps in the water and then realizes that he forgot his fins... Or weights... Or even worse, forgot to turn on his air. ("Hey, can you get that for me? ('Cause I can't reach it myself)") That stuff's just a little important. And I'm tired of waiting for them to fix themselves while I float around, wasting valuable dive time. I'm tired of spending all of my time watching them, because I don't trust their skills enough to do that 40' drift dive. I'm tired of having my dive cut short because their air consumption is horrible. What's worse, how safe is it for me to buddy with them and depend on THEIR skills to keep ME alive?

In retrospect, I can understand how I was previously so "put off" by Scubaboard's online DIR "Nazis." Their message seemed harsh and monotonous. I found myself offended at much of what seemed like arrogant sarcasm. But after a bunch of dives, I can completely understand why their attitudes seem that way. I can completely understand why they seem so curt and unfriendly. Frankly, I, too, am a little sick and tired of having the drunk idiot who's tank is hanging around their knees while they lay on the coral poke fun of me because he doesn't think that the water's cold enough to warrant a wetsuit. What's cold got to do with it? It's about protection, man, and I would never dive under any circumstances without some sort of protection. But that's my choice. I can understand someone else's choice to dive wearing anything they want... Full, shorty, dry, or just a bathing suit... My point is that I would never make fun of someone else's dive style... Especially if they seemed more prepared than I was, had less issues than I did, or had better skills than I did. I'd never make fun of them if it appeared that I might need to rely on them to live. And the really scary part is that their dive skills are so poor that they don't even see this... They don't even think about "life support" or "skills" or "issues." They're thinking about another beer. They're not thinking about buoyancy and trim, deco times, safety stops, or ascention rates... They're thinking about chasing the buoyant can of Cheese Whiz that they dropped. And I could be responsible for making sure they they live when they get bent or have an OOA.

I'm tired of being the most skillful diver on the boat. I know that seems arrogant, but I need to find some people with a little higher respect for the water... And a little more tolerance for those other divers (especially the ones with better skills than them.) I am tired of getting up at 4am so that I can gather my gear and show up (on time) at the dive site an hour and a half away, only to have the dive canceled because my dive buddy is too hungover or because their skills are such that they can't dive in the conditions that we have that morning. I'm tired of paying a price for THEM.

...And I can't change them. I can make suggestions and voice my concerns, but in the long run, if they don't take this seriously, I really don't want to depend on them to keep me alive.

And so I'm attracted to those who are reputed to "take diving a bit too seriously." I am attracted to those people who have been using the whole time, the ideals and rig configurations and thought processes that I have been developing on my own for the past couple of dozen dives. I am amazed at how "in sync" those methods that I've developed as "best" are to DIR methods. That's not to say that I think that I should, at this point, follow DIR blindly, but I do think that I need to get a little further into this... They could help me to develop what I would develop anyway, in a much shorter time frame, and with some guidance.

I can't wait to see what DIR-F has in store. I'm glad I made this decision.

And I thank you guys for being patient with me in the meantime. Forgive me for calling you guys "Nazis." That's how many newbies see DIR guys, because of the flat, blunt, hard message that they deliver. I am starting to see both sides now... And I understand why that message seems that way. And I can understand the frustrations felt by both sides of the DIR coin. Part of me thinks, "If you guys want to spread the word of DIR, then you really need to use kid gloves to deliver the message," while the other side of me thinks, "Just deliver the message. The smart ones will pick it up even if it's harsh, while the dummies will lose interest... And in that way the cream will rise to the top." Still another part of me says, "Who cares about delivering the message? I'm going diving... If others can see that DIR methods are better and safer and they want to dive under those circumstances with us, then great... But if they can't, then I don't want to dive with them anyway." I truly understand all of these points of views... Which is a pretty weird feeling... And very enlightening. My opinion of DIR has gone from that of "rediculous, arrogant, pointless, offensive, and silly" to "awe, enlightenment, understanding, desire to know more, and appreciation for the skills" based solely on my own personal experiences with NON-DIR divers, and their lack of "professionalism." I'm looking forward to some experiences with PRO-DIR divers, and I look forward to comparing those experiences.

I can't promise anything other than an open mind and a worthwhile try at what is taught to me. I can't promise that I'll go completely DIR... But I can promise that I'll listen. And I can promise that I'll keep an open mind. I can promise that I'll pursue what's right for me... Which remarkably, thus far, has been very DIR.

Going into this class, for me, feels very much like I'm getting to glimpse into my own personal future of diving. As my own learning curve and my own desire to take this sport as far as I can has progressed, I've found that my own developments become more and more synonymous with DIR methods. So taking the DIR-F class feels very much like getting to glimpse, today, where my own developments would take me years from now. Let's see what I can pick up from the class.

And you can bet your huevos that I'm gonna tell y'all every excrutiating detail. :D
 

Back
Top Bottom