DIR Diver Specialty?

[Red Sea Shadow]

Any agency can set up any specialty class they want. But as for offering a DIR class, it boils down to the question ... "who's going to teach it"?

You can't teach a DIR class unless you have DIR skills. Very few mainstream agency instructors do.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

The agency's headquarters can run some DIR instructor training workshops around the world to train its instructors and instructor trainers. The instructor trainers will then be capable of certifying instructors directly.

 

[TSandM]

Again, I think it's vanishingly unlikely that any of the mainstream agencies is going to adopt the unified team philosophy for any part of its instruction, for a great many reasons. If such classes came to be, they'd be distinctive specialties, proposed and fought for by individual instructors.

PADI isn't going to launch a unified team division -- for one thing, the 5star PADI shops would be up in arms instantly over the simplified, inexpensive equipment required! For another thing, the whole unified team concept is based on the students being willing to do a HUGE amount of work to reach the skill level necessary. For a third thing, resort operators would not be happy receiving students who insisted on keeping their depths to 100 feet, or requesting helium to go deeper. Insurance companies won't be happy with people diving without computers. I mean, it just isn't ever going to go anywhere as a major push from an existing agency. The owner of the shop Peter teaches for still considers a long hose "tech s***"!

 

[AndyNZ]

So do you think it's possible that PADI (since it's your agency) consider a DIR Diver Specialty class? A separate specialty course for OW divers or higher? I mean do you think it fits in a non DIR-oriented agency's curriculum?

You can do what ever you like with PADI - I teach a course that whilst originally inspired by the SDI Solo Diver course has in fact become closer and closer to courses like Fundies. A strange pedigree, I admit.

DIR is, to my mind, much more about TEAM than anything else.

The course I teach (Self Reliant Diver) is all about team. It's about buoyancy and trim, it's about dive planning and situational awareness, it's about precision in terms of control, it's about creating divers who can think and make informed choices.

So, yes... you can teach "DIR" through pretty much any agency you want... but whether you call it DIR is up to you.

LOL, and I've always said.... PADI is about as DIR as you can get, it just doesn't know it yet.

 

[AndyNZ]

Because, PADI is the furthest thing from DIR going in the market. When I did my IE my Instructor Examiner was outright hostile to my diving a bp&w, long hose and finning with my knees bent, etc. etc. I just can't see a DIR specialty ever happening.

I have to disagree. Whilst individuals in the PADI organisation object to the equipment, they are just individuals.

I've taught OW to students who wear a BP/W, have a long hose etc... and have done so with PADI's blessing.

I've also developed courses that mandate a long hose etc, and they have been approved by PADI (e.g. Advanced Wreck Diver).

The reality is, PADI as an organisation doesn't give a rats ar$e about what you do or how you do it - if the course is safe, is "distinctive" (i.e. doesn't detract from existing courses) and generates them revenue and brand equity, then they will approve the course.

I've been toying with writing a PADI DIR specialty, just for the hell of it - it would probably take me about 2-3 weeks to do..... hell, PADI (not DSAT) have approved "full cave" distinctive specailties. I'd be willing to wager that they'd accept a team diver course.

I think you might have significant problems getting a few things past the mainstream agencies: Teaching gas management to recreational divers (which seems to be a sticking point in Peter's shop), teaching minimum deco, and teaching lack of reliance on a computer. They might have issues with standard gases, max END of 100, and the use of recreational helium, too. (Although admittedly, that isn't part of Fundies.)

Most of those objections will be from the shop, not the agency. Specifically, all PADI standards allow teaching of gas management - just facilities and individuals choose not to. Depending on how you define minimum deco.... from a recreational perspective, it's really a graduated ascent using depth averaging on a give set point... so say using 32% your set point is 30 minutes at 30m, well that's with in the PADI RDP NDL's so you're not teaching students to exceed their NDLs, so no biggie at all.

I hate to come across evangelical, but PADI (I can't speak for other agencies) are often tarred with the wrong brush for attitudes that exist outside the agency itself.

 

[Guy Alcala]

<snip>

PADI isn't going to launch a unified team division -- for one thing, the 5star PADI shops would be up in arms instantly over the simplified, inexpensive equipment required! <snip>

Inexpensive? Only if it doesn't have blue H's on it I'd say it's about the same for other tech companies or slightly more, probably owing to relative volume of business (and/or status-based profit margins).

Guy

 

[lamont]

I think you might have significant problems getting a few things past the mainstream agencies: Teaching gas management to recreational divers (which seems to be a sticking point in Peter's shop)

That is just insane.

Probably 1/2 of the fatalities around here in the past 5 years have involved recreational divers going OOA.

The biggest thing that the local recreational training programs could be doing to avoid fatalities is teaching divers how to manage their gas.

Having this being a 'sticking point' is almost equivalent to actively encouraging divers to get themselves killed in the name of simplified training.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

The agency's headquarters can run some DIR instructor training workshops around the world to train its instructors and instructor trainers. The instructor trainers will then be capable of certifying instructors directly.

Somehow I don't think it would be that simple. There are some incompatible philosophies between the way agencies like PADI/NAUI/etc approach diving and the DIR approach. These are mental things that fundamentally alter how instructors approach teaching specific skills ... like descents and ascents for example.

You won't get "buy-in" from people who have been teaching a fundamentally different approach for years ... not even on simple things like descents and ascents.

While I think there are plenty of PADI/NAUI/etc instructors out there who could be taught to teach a DIR class (some already do), I don't see it as something you can just "pick up" like another specialty class. You have to mentally commit to that style of diving ... otherwise what you'll end up with is something that may superficially resemble DIR, but misses the whole point of the program.

I think a better approach would be a series of skills workshops that don't come with a c-card. Focus on specific skill sets without all the baggage that comes with the DIR label (call it something else, like "Performance Diving" for example).

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Red Sea Shadow]

Somehow I don't think it would be that simple. There are some incompatible philosophies between the way agencies like PADI/NAUI/etc approach diving and the DIR approach. These are mental things that fundamentally alter how instructors approach teaching specific skills ... like descents and ascents for example.

You won't get "buy-in" from people who have been teaching a fundamentally different approach for years ... not even on simple things like descents and ascents.

While I think there are plenty of PADI/NAUI/etc instructors out there who could be taught to teach a DIR class (some already do), I don't see it as something you can just "pick up" like another specialty class. You have to mentally commit to that style of diving ... otherwise what you'll end up with is something that may superficially resemble DIR, but misses the whole point of the program.

I think a better approach would be a series of skills workshops that don't come with a c-card. Focus on specific skill sets without all the baggage that comes with the DIR label (call it something else, like "Performance Diving" for example).

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Thanks Bob.

That's why I mentioned in the original post that DIR is a holistic approach. I was asking about the possibility of "blending" a DIR Diver Specialty course into a non DIR-oriented agency's portfolio, even in a "distinctive" way.

 

[cfenton]

I have to disagree. Whilst individuals in the PADI organisation object to the equipment, they are just individuals.

I've taught OW to students who wear a BP/W, have a long hose etc... and have done so with PADI's blessing.

I've also developed courses that mandate a long hose etc, and they have been approved by PADI (e.g. Advanced Wreck Diver).

The reality is, PADI as an organisation doesn't give a rats ar$e about what you do or how you do it - if the course is safe, is "distinctive" (i.e. doesn't detract from existing courses) and generates them revenue and brand equity, then they will approve the course.

I've been toying with writing a PADI DIR specialty, just for the hell of it - it would probably take me about 2-3 weeks to do..... hell, PADI (not DSAT) have approved "full cave" distinctive specailties. I'd be willing to wager that they'd accept a team diver course.

I can only speak from my experience. When my Instructor Examiner shook my hand at the end of the IE she said "You're now an Instructor, but I'm going to have nightmares about that long hose." I view these Instructor Examiners as representatives of the agency, not simply individuals. It is of course a very big organization though and many people will have very different experiences.

The other thing that struck me form the experience was that every single person that came to the IE passed and went out into the world to teach. Either we we're all great divers with awesome IDCs, or...

So that is where I'm coming from when I say that PADI is the furthest thing from DIR in the market.

Having said that I totally agree that you can teach proper skills with DIR equipment under the PADI umbrella. That's what we tried to do.

 

[Peter Guy]

["Big Brother" if you are still monitoring what I write, please read on.]

I disagree with people who say you "can't teach gas management in OW within the PADI system" (or words to that effect). It is true I've been told NOT to teach "gas management" as I was taught in Fundies in an OW class because it is believed to be too much information at that level. (I still haven't quite decided how I feel about it but I'm quite willing to work with the restrictions.) HOWEVER, there is no prohibition from teaching a lot about "air supply management" within the PADI OW system (and I've written about this before). There is even a question on the final exam which goes to the core what every diver should know about "air supply management" so all OW students should be learning about the correlation of time/depth/consumption.

In addition, there does not appear to be any prohibition in teaching "Fundies type" gas management as part of any number of relevant ConEd classes -- and don't forget that Fundies is a ConEd class too. Neither is there any prohibition in teaching alternative decompression strategies (i.e. Minimum Deco) nor a requirement to "rely on a computer" (actually, at the OW level IF teaching the RDP, you don't teach the use of a dive computer). (Note -- as part of my "Beta Techreational Workshop" I ran several different ascent profiles from a "normal" recreational dive and it turned out that Minimum Deco, ala GUE, was one of the most conservative from the standpoint of a gradual ascent and using the RDP was one of the most aggressive.)

Anyway, it "ain't the agency" that may have a problem with people teaching "DIR" classes -- or at least "my" agency.