DIR controversy?

[Thalassamania]

It is the diver, not the system...any diver who has the characteristics of a "dir-diver" will posses fairly equal skills...you get out what you put in...

You think EVERYONE should be required to "put more in" from the start. The "mainstream agencies " disagree...I haven’t made up my mind yet...

It's not like EVERYONE did not put in more in the past. They did and were the better for it.

One of the strengths of the DIR system (and my new system the DIC system, I'm copyrighting that as of now) is the concept a team, committed to the same approach, wearing almost the same gear, drilling together in the same way. Trust me, that makes a huge difference.

 

[Jasonmh]

DIR is inconvenient in that it would cost millions to convert all the gear owned (privately and rental) and also retrain everyone on how to use it.

Is that the sound of backpeddaling I hear? Sure, inconvenient if we wanted to force everyone in the world to use it. No one is saying that.
The equipment itelf is not inconvenient to dive with.

Again, remember that DIR is much more than equipment.

yes, much more.

How many people would quit diving or never start based on the $1,000 cost of class (based on OW + DIR-F)

No one has to quit, or change for that matter.
But if everyone did it might make the water alittle safer for me

 

[scuba66]

ill keep my own set up becuase it works for me. you keep your set up because it works for you. i have used the same type of gear for the past 12 years and i wont change it now. i know it inside and out and have been diving safe with it . it has been changed twice in those 12 years but its the same set up as i originally brought. if i have been divinbg for the past 14 years and have never had an accident havent i been doing it right all these years? think about it .

 

[TheRedHead]

Think of rabbits breeding. It wouldn't take long.

I'm surprised we've gone almost 400 posts before a mention of wabbits.

 

[H2Andy]

you know wolverines are not far behind

 

[jonnythan]

"A DIR diver is OOG and comes up to me and rips my primary out of my mouth. I have both hands full shooting a SMB and my octo is in the "golden triangle" instead of around my neck - what do I do?."

A DIR diver would be getting the gas from his buddy, who had already shoved a reg on the end of a 7' hose in his face at the first sign of trouble


"How many people would quit diving or never start based on the $1,000 cost of class (based on OW + DIR-F)"
OW classes are $600 these days? Holy crap. I only paid $150.

 

[minnesota01r6]

Is that the sound of backpeddaling I hear? Sure, inconvenient if we wanted to force everyone in the world to use it. No one is saying that.
The equipment itelf is not inconvenient to dive with.

If you read what I said in context it is not backpeddaling. I don't see how you can get that out of what I said.

If something will make us a tiny bit safer, but will be a huge inconvenience or prevent 99.9% of the population from doing it, then it usually is looked at as overkill.

No one has to quit, or change for that matter.
But if everyone did it might make the water alittle safer for me

How do non-DIR divers endanger your safety?

A DIR diver would be getting the gas from his buddy, who had already shoved a reg on the end of a 7' hose in his face at the first sign of trouble

Thanks for re-answering something I already said was missing the point of my post :huh:

I was using the example of PADI and DIR OOG divers to illustrate that there is a clash between any two systems of diving, and actually it might be worse between a DIR diver and any other agency-affiliated diver because all other agencies have you wear a brightly colored backup in the golden triangle. If you were task loaded and a PADI diver came up to you, he may not get your attention right away, and he'll be looking for that bright yellow non-existant reg. I, as a PADI trained diver, could easily answer "it's the reg in my hand that I'm shoving in their face" as well, but that is in a perfect world where you're not already task-loaded. Just assume, for the sake of argument, that you could possibly not notice an OOG diver when answering this question.

 

[lamont]

lamont -

I was using the example of PADI and DIR OOG divers to illustrate that there is a clash between any two systems of diving, and actually it might be worse between a DIR diver and any other agency-affiliated diver because all other agencies have you wear a brightly colored backup in the golden triangle. If you were task loaded and a PADI diver came up to you, he may not get your attention right away, and he'll be looking for that bright yellow non-existant reg. I, as a PADI trained diver, could easily answer "it's the reg in my hand that I'm shoving in their face" as well, but that is in a perfect world where you're not already task-loaded. Just assume, for the sake of argument, that you could possibly not notice an OOG diver when answering this question. Also, I could just as easily answer that I would take my buddy's backup reg and not go after some "poor DIR diver's" primary. Also, if you cannot fathom ever being separated from your buddy, then I think you are failing to account for everything that could go wrong on a dive.

If you want to illustrate the clash between the systems, you'd be better off talking about someone RSTC trained who is trying to rescue me as an unconscious diver and having to deal with my unfamiliar BP/W. You'd still need to explain why my buddy, who is supposed to be watching me all the time, didn't notice me going unconscious as well -- it'd take a huge breakdown in the team to allow that to happen, and we train specifically to eliminate that kind of possibility from occuring.

And we train not to get separated. If the viz gets bad we go into touch contact. If my buddy gets blown off the wreck, I go with him to help shoot the bag and deco.

The last time I lost my buddies was on a scooter training dive when we discovered how fast you can lose each other on a scooter. That gets chalked up as a lesson learned so that we train to never lose each other on scooters again, wash, rinse, repeat.

Plus, if I lose my buddy, I abort the dive. I reserve enough gas to get both of us to the surface, so I'm unlikely to run OOG on the way there. You'd have to be suggesting that I lose my buddy, my regulator free-flows and I'm not on double tanks or an H-valve so I can't stop the gas loss myself. Very unlikely to all happen at the same time.

 

[grazie42]

Originally Posted by Thalassamania
It's not like EVERYONE did not put in more in the past. They did and were the better for it.

One of the strengths of the DIR system (and my new system the DIC system, I'm copyrighting that as of now) is the concept a team, committed to the same approach, wearing almost the same gear, drilling together in the same way. Trust me, that makes a huge difference.

I´ve only been diving for about 5 years...I don´t have any idea how it was in the past...

I agree about the team-bit...that´s the way I dive too...there´s no substitute for time the team spends together in the water...which is propably why that approach is not for everyone...to great an investment with uncertain returns for most...

 

[Jasonmh]

If you read what I said in context it is not backpeddaling. I don't see how you can get that out of what I said.

Just trying to figure out where you got
"DIR is inconvenient in that it would cost millions to convert all the gear owned (privately and rental) and also retrain everyone on how to use it."

How do non-DIR divers endanger your safety?

I didn't say that non-DIR divers endangered my safety.
If there are fewer people in the water then that may lower my chance of running in to all of these divers that are ripping the regs out of peoples mouths that you are talking about.