Originally Posted by Halthron
You said a "brand new diver", which is what I responded to. A brand new diver is someone who is a diver (by definition having passed OW) but is very new, few or no non-checkout dives. If you meant a "soon to be" diver, then you're right, they currently don't offer an OW course. But that isn't what you said.
It doesen´t matter how you define it. Your "brand new diver" +dir-f does not = "brand new diver"!
Whoever you have "pre dir-f" you have to assume that dir-f gives SOME additional benefit (or at least a difference). Hence the comparrison is unfair. Of course...if you don´t think dir-f has any positive impact...then I´ll concede your point (having never taken it myself) but that would also render the whole argument moot...
I can´t believe you don´t see the logical fallacy...
Posted by BarryNL
But, throw in "options" like integrated weights, weight harnesses, tank mounted weight systems, BCD integrated regulators, Mares HUB style scariness, etc. and things get confusing fast in an OOA situation.
It doesen´t matter if your buddy brought the kitchen sink with him!
If you decide to dive with someone, then according to "the system" (let´s say PADI), you are supposed to do a "buddy-check". If you don´t know or can´t handle your buddys equipment afterwards then you haven´t done it correctly. If you do, then OOA, is not a problem regardless of whether you are diving with a "christmas tree masquerading as a diver" or not.
I won´t pretend to endorse such configs but if you choose to accept the buddy responsibility for such a diver, then the problems that config causes is as much yours as his (according to the system).
Using examples where divers "outside a system" have problems and blaming the system is like blaming gue (dir, whatever) for the mistakes of those who "say they are dir, but aren´t"...