DIR controversy?

[grazie42]

DIR isn't an agency so we'll focus on GUE, the most well known of the DIR advocating agencies. The thing about DIR is consistency. Two 100% DIR divers who've never met before should know 99% of what their new buddy has equiped, where it is and what to expect. There should be no suprises.

If you do a buddy-check (part of the system) neither should there be between to padi-divers (or whatever recagency you choose)

A brand new diver (earlier this year GUE was considering offering an OW course but it hasn't gone truely public, if it ever will) can enroll in the DIR-F course. There is no dive requirement listed on the website other than holding an OW certification...snip...

but ow+ dirf = more training and more time with an instructor than just OW so how can you compare the two? If other agencies started requiring ow before you could take ow then we´d have a fair comparisson...apples and oranges...

 

[wreckchick]

Taking this slightly off the current tangent...

The ONLY time I get a little preachy about a hog configuration is where I see people that have *******ized the thing beyond usefulness. I can't tell you some of the messed up things I've seen including, but not limited to; a long hose wrapped firmly around the head and bungeed with a short hose "octo" in a keeper on the right chest d-ring, hose routing that has to make it nearly impossible to move, much less donate in an OOA; snorkel and a long hose which will guarantee that in an OOA the mask is coming off; back-up light attached to the chest d-rings but not through the inner tube so they hang and bang all over stuff; slates/lights/cameras/catch bags hanging off the scooter ring, again smashing into everything; and people who dive the "look" but don't have a clue about the function.

Any of those are DOING IT WRONG, I don't care who you are or how you go about things, if you take a dive system, any dive system and make it completely ineffectual, you are violating the intent.

If I see someone doing any of the above (or other creative ways of configuring gear) I will question them about how his/her rig is supposed to function and perhaps make suggestions about how it might be more effective. Joe Diver with his jacket, split fins and standard hoses, neatly stowed, gets a smile and "enjoy the dive!"

Rachel

 

[Halthron]

I think this is an overstatement.

Not an overstatement, I put the "as far as I know" to cover that I obviously haven't seen every instructor from every agency. I absolutely agree that it depends on the instructor. Of those that I've seen, few drive OOA home. And stuff can be in the book but this is the type of thing that needs to be practiced quite a bit in OW (in my opinion) and more than the amount that I've generally seen.

An instructor that does drive the point home is definitely someone who is doing well by their students. Unfortunately, OW is one of the classes where the instructor matters the most but the student knows how to evaluate an instructor the least.

 

[Halthron]

but ow+ dirf = more training and more time with an instructor than just OW so how can you compare the two? If other agencies started requiring ow before you could take ow then we´d have a fair comparisson...apples and oranges...

You said a "brand new diver", which is what I responded to. A brand new diver is someone who is a diver (by definition having passed OW) but is very new, few or no non-checkout dives. If you meant a "soon to be" diver, then you're right, they currently don't offer an OW course. But that isn't what you said.

 

[Wolverine]

DIR isn't an agency so we'll focus on GUE, the most well known of the DIR advocating agencies. The thing about DIR is consistency. Two 100% DIR divers who've never met before should know 99% of what their new buddy has equiped, where it is and what to expect. There should be no suprises.

A brand new diver (earlier this year GUE was considering offering an OW course but it hasn't gone truely public, if it ever will) can enroll in the DIR-F course. There is no dive requirement listed on the website other than holding an OW certification. Once that diver has passed DIR-F and has done 50 dives, they can take the Rec Tri-Ox course. Naturally, the other budding DIR agencies will have different models.

Good points actually. Having consistency does help though at the end of the day (as a tech diver) I learnt that the best person to depend on is myself. Making sure my equipment works and making sure that backups are in place are the key to good technical diving (not exactly DIR I guess, but tech is pretty close to it).

When I go on a dive holiday, most people I meet don't dive as often or have much experience. The key to good DIR or tech is experience and practice. When most recreational divers dive less than 20 or 30 dives a year, it probably makes no difference if they are DIR trained. They are unlikely to have their own equipment, nor would they have the practice to implement proper techniques.

Being half DIR to begin with, I can understand how DIR can improve safety for regular practitioners, but from what I can see about the normal recreational diver, it is probably easier to train them on what is available on rent (ie normal jackets and short hoses).

At the end of the day, nothing beats experience.

 

[BarryNL]

If you do a buddy-check (part of the system) neither should there be between to padi-divers (or whatever recagency you choose)

But, throw in "options" like integrated weights, weight harnesses, tank mounted weight systems, BCD integrated regulators, Mares HUB style scariness, etc. and things get confusing fast in an OOA situation.

 

[Thalassamania]

The whole controversy revolves around a caricature of DIR. It has little to do with reality and has more to do with an image that is perpetuated online through Internet forums and email lists.

The problem is that the representatives of DIR (often, I will grant you self-appointed) are so smugly self-righteous that they piss everyone off. They remind me of the Pilgrims, who did not leave England to seek religious freedom (unless you consider the right to persecute others to be a form of religious freedom), but rather were forced out because no one could stomach their fundamentalist twaddle. It is a shame that such a situation has come to pass, because the philosophical foundations of DIR (simplicity, do it right, train as a team, train as you dive, the “industry” is basically incompetent, etc.) are, I feel, right on.

I have always dove black gear. At first this was because that was all that there was and for the last 25 years it’s been a personal statement about the foofoo gear that has been pushed on divers. But I’m thinking of changing this life long habit because I don’t want to be misidentified.

People have been diving and using techniques and skills that are part of the DIR system of diving for many years before there was a DIR system of diving. Even those that put this system together will tell you that they didn't invent any of this.

It is a system that seems to me (as a sympathetic outsider) to be a compote of great techniques, folk wisdom, urban myth and cultural touchstones that are the diving equivalent of the Abominations of Leviticus. But this is no different from other systems (including the one that I subscribe to) that are put together by a small insular group.

GUE (Global Underwater Explorers) has simply put these different skills, techniques and procedures into a system that they teach. There are others systems out there and the DIR system is not for everyone. That's OK! You can think of DIR as a list of "best practices according to GUE". It's that simple.

From what I can determine, the DIR system seems to be a pretty good one, in any case vastly better than the dominant form represented by the Tweedledee-Teedledumber act of the RecCom where the monotony of reduction to the least common denominator has made differences between the agencies all but irrelevant (remember it’s the individual instructor, not the card in his or her wallet that counts!).

There are different systems out there for speed reading, helping you to remember things, etc. People are free to choose which one they want to put their confidence into. You probably won't find many people using one system of memory techniques berating people using a different system although you may find a few.

People are, of course, free to go to hell in the handbasket of their choosing, but the DIR seem to think that there are only two baskets in town, theirs and that of the RecCom.

Of more concern to me is that DIR seems to push (at least is represented as advocating) the idea that one gear configuration optimally satisfies all needs. I use different dry suits for different needs (e.g., polluted water, shore entry, arctic diving). I use different wetsuits for different temperature regimes. I have more than a half dozen pair of fins, each pair for its own purpose. The fin that I’d wear in a turbid, swiftly moving river is very different than that which I’d use over a silty bottom in stagnant water. I use a different fin for a shore entry on a steep beach than I use on a shallowly sloping beach with a wider, but lower surf zone. The same can be said of almost every piece of gear, down to my mouthpiece. And I don’t understand the fascination with canister lights. I happen to think that canister lights are great, but only when it’s dark.

It's like talking to people involved in different martial arts. Of course, everyone thinks that whichever martial art they are studying is the best one. While plenty of disagreement might take place between people at the lower levels of these systems, you'll find that the people at the top of these systems have more to agree upon than disagree upon.

No – it’s much worse than the martial arts situation. My Aikido Sensei can beat up on your KungFu Sensei is the type of discussion that can be settled. Remember the scene in Seven Samurai? In diving it all happens witnessed only by an accomplice.

You can find people that are either "pro" or "anti" DIR that have a propensity to display fits of psychopathic fury. It has nothing to do with DIR, but everything to do with these individuals. You can't reasonably judge any system based on the emotional outbursts of people for or against it.

.
You’ve got that right, and frankly I resent those outbursts setting the tone for the entire discussion, which if conducted in an inclusive way could make diving better for all.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

A brand new diver (earlier this year GUE was considering offering an OW course but it hasn't gone truely public, if it ever will) can enroll in the DIR-F course. There is no dive requirement listed on the website other than holding an OW certification.

This may be true in theory, but I don't know a single GUE instructor who would take a student fresh out of OW into a DIR-F class. All the ones I know will encourage you to get some dives and develop a certain in-water comfort first. Since DIR is a team-oriented approach, it would be a disservice to other students to pair them up with someone who has just completed OW. Imagine trying to do a mid-water ascent with that diver while sharing air ... no matter how well-prepared the buddy is, it won't work. It leads to a lot of frustration when the team breaks down ... and neither student will get out of the class what they came into it for.

So although there is no agency-specification for experience dives prior to DIR-F, I think there would be an instructor-specified requirement that you have at least mastered the basics of OW skills beforehand.

Once that diver has passed DIR-F and has done 50 dives, they can take the Rec Tri-Ox course.

Well, that's assuming that the diver manages to pass DIR-F in 50 dives or less. I can assure you that's (by a wide margin) the exception, rather than the rule. Most times, it takes 50 dives or more after getting your Provisional rating to develop your skills sufficient to pass the class.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Diver Dennis]

Thank you Thal. I too choose to take from all styles of diving the ideas and procedures that work well for me. Isn't that the way it should be?

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I have always dove black gear. At first this was because that was all that there was and for the last 25 years it’s been a personal statement about the foofoo gear that has been pushed on divers. But I’m thinking of changing this life long habit because I don’t want to be misidentified.

Oh ... well in that case, be careful not to get a black suit with red upper torso overlay ... that seems to be all the rage with the DIR folks these days (nice-looking suit, though) ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)