DIR compliancy questions.

[jplacson]

I just recently took my Fundamentals course (Provisional rating) ... and I have to say, it really isn't the Nazi class most people claim it is.

I asked my instructor (Andrew Georgitsis) if they softened the class up a bit for us, just a bunch of OW cert divers, and if they are stricter for students who are instructors or tech divers. He said the class is exactly the same. Same pointers, same critques. Only difference... they don't have to beat down a lot of egos when the class is OW divers.

This is probably where the "Nazi" term comes from... from the earlier classes when GUE wasn't as known... or DIR was just this vague thing cave & tech divers threw around. An egotistical student would get his ego bashed out... and feel like he was just at boot camp! Hence the reputation of the "Nazi" diving school.

But throughout the Fundamentals course... it was really not as inflexible as a lot of people think it is. And my instructor was right... it's very difficult to explain to people who haven't taken the course. And it really is more about a WAY of thinking than it is your gear. (But your gear config will eventually follow the way you think... and if you all follow the same train of thought... your gear config will all be the same... get it?)

 

[JeffG]

Ok, ok, "final" is not the right word, but what Bob Sherwood told me after consulting with JJ. Recent activity with GI3 on the gavinscooters list also confirms this. You see it a lot in the west coast DIR crowd, but the higher-ups in GUE say no. It solved no problems and creates others (scootering, caving, etc).

FWIW, I have a forearm mounted dump.

OK...Sure...and it has absolutely nothing to do with the X-Scooter as well...I can't wait to see a bunch of divers with patches on their forearms and bright new shiny valves on their shoulders..

 

[JeffG]

I just recently took my Fundamentals course (Provisional rating) ... and I have to say, it really isn't the Nazi class most people claim it is.

I asked my instructor (Andrew Georgitsis)

Too bad you don't have access to the Gavin Scooter list and you will find out that AG isn't DIR

 

[jplacson]

Too bad you don't have access to the Gavin Scooter list and you will find out that AG isn't DIR

Why not?

 

[JeffG]

Why not?

Politics and chest thumping...and toss in a scooter for good measure.

 

[jplacson]

So politics affects whether you're DIR or not?

The scooter thing... hahahaha... I think I have an idea of what's going on there.

 

[JeffG]

So politics affects whether you're DIR or not?

The scooter thing... hahahaha... I think I have an idea of what's going on there.

DIR is just a system and has no understanding of politics...on the other hand people add the complexity of perception to any system.

 

[Nostromo]

First off I'd like to thank everybody for their input, even if half of it is contradictory. Its not often I actually post to boards like this, and I have to say so far I'm having a good time, and hope the rest of you are as well. Anyway, from what's been written I've come to the following conclusions:

1) The TLS-350 rips easily.
2) The word "stroke" is bad, and shouldn't be used in polite company.
3) I should be attending driving school.
4) The TLS-350 is tougher than people think.
5) A cave cut won't work in cold climates.
6) The vent goes on the left arm, somewhere.
7) Zip-seals are bad, bad, bad.
8) The internet is a bad place to learn about DIR.
9) I should be attending a Nazi driving school.
10) I don't have the experience to know a "stroke" (whoops I did it again) when I see one.
11) I should just get in the water and dive, and not worry about how to fit a dry-suit.
12) I don't know what happened after post 10, but I think the most reasonable thing for me to do is ignore it.

In response, I'd like to offer the following:

First, the comment that the internet is a bad place to learn about DIR is possibly the most ironic statement I've seen in a great long while, and amused me to no end. What exactly is the point of a DIR forum, if when you go there and ask for help you're told its not really a good idea to get info from the internet?

Insofar as the durability of the TLS-350 is concerned, I'm not too worried. Many people seem to be using them in environments that are more hostile than what I expect either myself or my GF to be diving in, at least in the foreseeable future.

Personally I kind of like the word "stroke". Its the sort of single syllable word you can really put some power behind when you scream it out at somebody. As for my ability to identify somebody with an unsafe attitude, I don't need a course in diving, or hundreds of dives for that matter, to know when somebody is simply being unsafe. Its not a question of needing to be better than somebody to know they're going to get you hurt.

I should be attending a driving school. Ok, I realize that wasn't at all the point the guy was trying to make, but the more I think about it he's probably right, and I'll start looking this week. Its a shame DIR-F isn't offered anywhere around here, but I'm pretty sure there's a Nazi School of Driving over in Duluth I can take in the meantime. I'll work on the silly walk too.

As I thought I understood it, a cave cut wasn't about making a special purpose tight fitting suit, so much as it was about fudging the numbers to get a better fitting general use suit. DUI apparently has some problems converting custom numbers into an actual properly fitting suit, and certain fudge factors were supposed to compensate for that. That's kind of what I was asking about.

The vent goes on the left arm somewhere, and zip-seals are an unnecessary failure point. It seems reasonable the vent placement (within certain parameters) is a matter of personal preference. It also seems reasonable that zip-seals are probably an unnecessary complication to fix an essentially nonexistent problem.

Finally, the concept that I should just get in the water and dive is great. The problem is that people don't plan to fail, they fail to plan. Should I just go out and spend a couple grand on the first dry-suit I see, stuff my girlfriend in it and hope for the best? Or should I get as much info as I can and plan accordingly. If a custom cave cut just fits better than a regular custom fit, why not go the extra mile, especially when you're spending thousands of bucks on something that hopefully will last a number of years?

Anyway, thanks again, and I look forward to any further opinions and ideas you all may have.

 

[globaldiver]

I can't see the problem in ordering a cave cut TLS 350 suit if you specify that you are planning to dive it with a C4 (thinsulate 400) undergarment. The trick is to find a person that can measure you properly for this, meaning someone who have measured cave cut suits before.

I have a cave cut TLS 350 that was ordered after the same specifications and it works perfect, both diving in the pacific ocean and ice diving, which I did a couple of weeks ago. I find the cave cut TLS 350 simply to be an excellent suit. I would recommend the standard Kevlar knee pads though.

Good luck with your upcoming diving and gear purchase, however, I strongly concur that the wisest thing would be to talk to a GUE instructor (like Brando who seems to be closest to you) and to definitely take the DIR-fundamentals course as soon as you can, even if you have to travel. That is if you actually want to start to learn GUEs DIR system.

Anders

 

[Soggy]

Officially, the vent goes on the upper left arm, near the shoulder.