DIR Class: The Truth Comes Out

[WreckWriter]

SeaJay once bubbled...


Holy smokes.

Thanks a lot man; that really means a lot coming from a published artist like yourself.

You know, last I looked, it wasn't me making money with his writing skills. I'm jealous.

Hey, maybe you could bring some of your skills and knowlege up here to South Carolina so we could explore some of the Histories and Mysteries of some of the Atlantic's most hidden treasures together. I have a relative here who's been a shrimper for almost five decades. He knows the waters and it's "hangs" (where nets snag for no apparent reason) like the back of his hand. I've compared his hangs with known reefs and wrecks, and still have some forty-five points of interest that are totally unaccounted for by NOAA or the USCG. And they're all within a couple hours of the dock in my backyard.

I am sure that there are several wrecks and crashes that have never been found. Certainly some of these points of interest have to be those unfound wrecks and crashes.

Wanna come diving? We could write about it and make a lot of money...

Published yes, artist is more questionable!

I'd love to come up and work with you on that but unfortunately my job won't give me the time. Maybe someday. In the meantime, let me know what you need and I can at least give you some research help.

Remember one thing: the sub is not likely

As for the DIRF class stuff, I'm really glad to see you got it done. Sounds like you drank only a reasonable amount of the kool aid.

WW

 

[mddolson]

I just got to read your Sunday installment this morning.
Your experience echos my old Judo Sensie(instructor)

(PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE !)

He would demonstrate a techniquie, then detail the fine points, watch me do it, add some correction, then when I had it correct, he would say now do that 100 times. When done I would ask now what? Do 100 more. Until I had completed the technique about 1000 times.

Now I had the rudiments, and I could say I knew how to do it.

MIke D

 

[detroit diver]

FLL Diver once bubbled...



Jack - was the purpose of this exercise to show you the how difficult it would be to operate underwater when all your equipment is not working properly, or did it show you your suit didn't fit you properly?

I can understand how happy you would feel when everything was corrected and you were able to complete your drill.

Marc

Marc,

If youi're speaking of not attaching the suit inflator, the answer is that they want you to feel how the suit should actually fit while diving. That is, at 20 feet, there should be some suit squeeze without having added air. Most people add way too much air, and then have serious bouyancy/trim problems due to that air.

In my case, I don't know if it was the fit of my drysuit, or whatever, but without air the material around my arms was constricted enough that it hampered the movement of the arm.

 

[detroit diver]

WJL once bubbled...
I remember that day very well, Jack. We got out of the water feeling pretty happy that we got through our valve drills without looking like complete losers, although it was a lot easier for me diving a single tank than it was for you with the doubles.

The next day in class we got a real lesson in valve drills from Andrew. We were at 20 feet getting ready to practice s-drills when Jack's second stage on his primary started to leak air from the connection between the regulator and the hose. He went to his backup, then fiddled with his primary's second stage, giving it a twist to tighten it up. Well, as we learned later that was a mistake. The connection leaks that way if the o-ring is not seated correctly, and tightening the connection just makes the o-ring break completely. Which is exactly what happened. Bubbles everywhere. Jack shut down the valve to his primary, thereby demonstrating the utility of his newly-perfected valve manipulation skills. While he was doing that, I'm thinking our dive is toasted, because now we've only got three functioning second stages between us, and we're not going to be doing any conventional s-drills that way.

Andrew was watching over us, and took the situation in hand in a way I couldn't believe. I watched him shut down the valve to his own primary and isolator, while I'm wondering what's going on. Then he reached back a little further, and calmly removed his primary first stage from the manifold! He then went over to Jack, and replaced Jack's first stage with his. On we went with our dive. I couldn't believe it.

The more I thought about it, the more impressed I was. To be able to do that so easily, and it was easy, he had to have practiced it, oh I don't know, a few hundred times. It's one thing to have perfected your ability to do a "normal" valve drill for doubles. Removing and replacing your first stage regulator, behind your head, under water, is taking valve drills to a whole new level. The level of skill and commitment these guys have, to think through, practice and perfect dealing with issues I never even thought of, is amazing to me.

My jaw still drops when I think about him removing that reg! As you said, he did it as if he practiced it every day. The man has spider arms!

The lesson about the o-ring will stay with me forever. We learned a lot that day!

 

[Hoppy]

I have only one thing to say, having waited for this report for what seems like ages !

THANK YOU

OK, I lied. !!! One more thing. Your writing style is great, you conjure the image of being there, I can almost feel the water !

I think I have to investigate this stuff some more, as it seems to make quite a lot of sense.

One question I do have either for you or MHK. I dive with twins (doubles) which are fully redundant eg. 2 primary, 2 octo's. Wing inflate on one tank, drysuit feed on the other. Why do the DIR guys use manifold doubles and not redundant doubles ? My feeling is that I have less pontential failure points than their rig.

Or have I missed something fundamental ?

Yours and or any other thoughts would be very appreciated.

Cheers again
Hoppy

 

[detroit diver]

Hoppy once bubbled...
I have only one thing to say, having waited for this report for what seems like ages !

THANK YOU

OK, I lied. !!! One more thing. Your writing style is great, you conjure the image of being there, I can almost feel the water !

I think I have to investigate this stuff some more, as it seems to make quite a lot of sense.

One question I do have either for you or MHK. I dive with twins (doubles) which are fully redundant eg. 2 primary, 2 octo's. Wing inflate on one tank, drysuit feed on the other. Why do the DIR guys use manifold doubles and not redundant doubles ? My feeling is that I have less pontential failure points than their rig.

Or have I missed something fundamental ?

Yours and or any other thoughts would be very appreciated.

Cheers again
Hoppy

If I may answer that-

The manifolded doubles does a couple of things. First, the gas is evenly balanced between the two tanks, ie you're breathing from both at the same rate. Second, in case of a first stage failure, you still have the gas to use in that tank simply by shutting down the valve for that side. In case of an O-ring failure on the tank, the center valve is used to isolate that tank.

On "redundant" doubles, if your first stage fails, you lose that gas. Also, breathing down one tank will set up an imbalance for trim purposes.

The potential failure points on the manifold are minor in comparison to the need for breathing gas.

 

[Hoppy]

detroit diver once bubbled...


If I may answer that-

The manifolded doubles does a couple of things. First, the gas is evenly balanced between the two tanks, ie you're breathing from both at the same rate. Second, in case of a first stage failure, you still have the gas to use in that tank simply by shutting down the valve for that side. In case of an O-ring failure on the tank, the center valve is used to isolate that tank.

On "redundant" doubles, if your first stage fails, you lose that gas. Also, breathing down one tank will set up an imbalance for trim purposes.

The potential failure points on the manifold are minor in comparison to the need for breathing gas.

OK, I accept the point about breathing them down equal, I breath mine down 50 each, with a resulting small lack of balance.

So you gain from access to the gas if your first stage goes ? But if the O-ring goes you have the same problem as me. That tank is useless ?

Have I got it ?

Not having been diving for too long compared to most of you on here, how often does a first stage fail ?

Sorry if I'm being thick here, but just need to understand this. We have a situation here where local Health & Safety stipulate that the redundant doubles is the way to be rigged when teaching or DM'ing. Not the certing agency !

I want to be able to decide for myself the pro's and con's of the differing rigs.

Thaks again for the input guys, the wealth of info and experience on here is awesome !

Hoppy.











Unless again I've missed something

 

[Big-t-2538]

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong....but

I believe the GUE/DIR guys dive what they dive because it is the least "vulnerable" rig to equipment failuires...and if something happens, they have a contingency plan for it. Do I know the intricacies of it...no, but I believe that Q&A is a major part of the lecture that they go over in the DIR-F course.

 

[O-ring]

So you gain from access to the gas if your first stage goes ? But if the O-ring goes you have the same problem as me. That tank is useless ?

Have I got it ?

If your o-ring on the first stage goes, you can just shut down that valve and breathe the contents of both cylinders down from the second on the non-leaking post. You're right if you were talking about a tank neck o-ring though...we would have to isolate and lose the gas out of that cylinder the same as you.

 

[Uncle Pug]

Hoppy once bubbled...
But if the O-ring goes you have the same problem as me. That tank is useless ?

That would be correct for the tank to valve o-ring... the cross over isolation valve would be shut down and the gas in the affected cylinder would still be available through its second stage until depleted but the leak would not be stopped.

Should the valve to reg 0-ring fail you would simply shut down that valve and still have all the gas in the cylinder available to the other regulator through the cross over.