DIR Class: The Truth Comes Out (Again)

[Raven C]

SeaJay,
So, why did Raven "Report" the post? If it wasn't that bad, why did she ask that it be removed? Not edited, mind you but REMOVED! You embarrassed her with your antics... how sad. Then there was your ensuing justification of your poor judgment. That pig still doesn't fly. You just didn't seem to get it then. But when you wanted back in, you claimed you got it fine. But now you don’t get it again. This bothers me.

Excuse me please but I must say something here.

I have hardly posted since the banning episode, even when I wanted to address comments that were said on my behalf or that included me because of a "FEAR" of one day I suddenly can no longer participate, which in turn prevents me from having contact with many of my friends here. But I can no longer sit here and let people tell things that are simply NOT TRUE.

-- I must admit to you that as I try to type my hands are literally shaking because I don't know if you all are going to delete my response and ban me. --

Pete, what you wrote is simply untrue and that is the nicest way I can put it. You don't know why I reported the SeaJay’s post because you chose not to speak to me at anytime during the entire process. You never returned my emails. You never spoke to me about the whole thing during or after, so I don’t understand why you would even make that statement.

-- Thank goodness someone knocked on my door. It gave me a chance to step back and calm down. Although as I begin to type the nervousness is coming back. --

Please allow me to set the record straight. I reported the post not out of embarrassment. I reported the post because at the time I was organizing a dive trip, which I really enjoyed doing and which was the reason I started Deep South Divers. I didn’t want the thread to get off track in the middle of people keeping up with the scheduling. There was a lot of traffic on that thread by many from DSD and Florida Conch Divers to find out details about the trip and to see who was going, arriving when, where to stay…. Banter would get in the way of many trying to participate in that particular trip. I personally asked for the post to be removed for THAT very reason, which to me was a very good and valid reason. Pete, if you would have ever communicated with me, you would know that.

At the beginning of the year we had a big mess on our hands. As a result, YOU guys helped us to write the Banning Process so that we wouldn’t repeat those mistakes. Those who were UNFAIRLY banned got a personal apology from me. They can tell you that I simply hate bannings, but sometimes it’s the only way to get someone’s attention… sort of like a 2x4 across the back side of a mule.

This was also said a few days ago. I was one of the “UNFAIRLY” banned. I have read that statement a few times yet I never got a personal apology. That’s not the point or the issue here. The point is you have chosen, not only you, to speak on my behalf. And, what's being said is not accurate.

One other thing… several times it was been posted that those banned were notified by emails. That too is untrue. Never happened. Most of all the details given here on the board as to the protocol that was used were simply not true.

Now, I didn’t post any of this to cause a problem/fight/ill feelings - I simply don’t want people saying Raven did or said such and such because… when it simply is not the case. I have not posted about the banning incidents because I wanted to put it behind me. When I first came back on the board I was warned for posting well wishes from me and SeaJay because he had not been allowed back yet. Knowing that Happy Birthday or Congratulations from me, a current member of the board, and someone who is not a member of the board would bring a warning for an inappropriate post made me feel uncomfortable and that maybe “they” were looking for any reason to get rid of me. I was banned by association as was one of my good friends, now a moderator. At the time, I know that this person felt the same way I did because we continued our friendship outside of the board just as we had done before the incident.

I miss being able to share my dive reports as I loved doing before. I like to also hear about others’. I miss arranging dive trips and getting divers together. I miss sharing with others how diving is changing my life as well as how other divers are changing my life. I miss sharing what I have learned and my frustrations as to what I am trying to learn and my learning curve. I just took my DIR Fundies course and miss not sharing my experience with all those who care to know or those who might be curious. I know there are many who couldn’t give a rip but there are some who do/did. I also miss sharing my experiences in gear discovery with others who seek information in order to have the best possible dive experience. I miss so much here at Scuba Board. I made some very good friends. Friends that I keep in contact with outside of the board and friends I keep in contact with only through PMs on the board. Friends that I only dove with on trips planned right here on the board. I learned so much here about diving. I often bugged people behind the scenes asking HOW TO questions. I appreciate their patience and help. I have sooooo much I would love to tell you guys about the diving I’ve (we’ve) been doing.

Now, I read more than anything here and PM back and forth behind the scenes. This post is not meant to be hostile; I guess it has two messages. 1. I just can’t stand by letting people post things that are simply not true when the things are about me. And, 2ndly to say this whole inappropriate banned thing took a lot of enjoyment out of Scuba Board.

I have waited nearly two hours to post this thinking that it may be my last post here as I may have offended the “Grand Poo Bah” and his helpers and I may no longer have the “privilege” of being here simply for telling the truth. How scary is that? VERY but here goes.

BTW – YES, I PASSED MY FUNDIES COURSE (she shouts) WOO WHOO (She dances idiotically around the room)

 

[boomx5]

So please, pretty pretty please with sugar on top tell us about the course!

There should be some more trip reports floating around the board here. Also, the BAUE website has some good trip reports on it too. Not only is there a DIR-F report, but they also have a RecTriOx, a Tech1 and a Cave1 trip report posted there.

Bay Area Underwater Explorers

Good luck,

 

[scuba_luv]

Congratulations on the Fundies course!
I hope that you can provide some more details about your experience because I for one would love to hear more.

Also, it seems that banning is a very powerful act and should be very carefully applied. It does sound from NetDoc and others comments that there's more of a procedure in place now, which can only be to the good.
I've learned a lot so far from everyone on Scubaboard. I can't say that that I've learned "as much" from the posts that went a little crazy, but I sure have learned a lot from them as well as the ones that stayed on topic.
~K

 

[The Chairman]

Raven, you were banned unfairly... a guilt by association and that was quickly reversed and my apologies were extended to you albeit through SeaJay. You have the right to not forgive the board or me or whoever, but at least you haven't been promoting a "Raven Pity Party". You would at least have some right to that. SeaJay was not banned in error.

However, your tune has changed as to why you reported the post. Those are not the reasons you gave last December. While I applaud your loyalty to SeaJay in this, I would rather you stick to the facts.

If hate is the act of swallowing poison and waiting for your adversary to die, then bitterness is the act of savoring the taste of that poison. Neither are constructive and there is nothing anyone can do to help the person out. It's their decision to change their attitude. However, when the bitterness keeps coming to the surface AND PUBLICLY, then it was worth the effort to try one more time to help a friend see how they are only hurting themselves. And now I have finished trying to reason with you as well. You can choose to believe what you want to believe, the facts remain constant.

 

[Raven C]

No need for all the drama. I am not angry or bitter. I am not posting out of loyalty to anyone but myself. My tone has not changed nor my reason for requesting for the post in question to be remove. I have always maintained that I didn't want that in the middle of my planning a trip. BTW, I do have all the emails that I sent out trying to get someone to communicate with me over the entire matter.

If you apologized to me in a conversation to SeaJay, then I guess "Thank you for the apology." I think my post above addressed all matters appropriately. I would like to move on with all this and I would just ask that everyone let Raven speak for herself unless I ask you to speak for me. That's all. R

 

[The Chairman]

No need for all the drama.

Precisely my point.

 

[RichLockyer]

I still don´t understand why its un-DIR to dive with computers but as I´m not trying to be DIR (perhaps a caveat of not yet would be prudent?) it doesent really bother me and certainly doesent keep me from diving with mine (even on...GASP...trimix). I´ll just add that arguing that comps are "fragile" while endorsing the use of bottomtimers (with the same basic construction) seems, to put it midly, odd.

Straight from the horse's mouth:
http://www.baue.org/library/bakerscomputers.html

With the bottom timer, you have a backup on your buddy's wrist. If your computer fails, you COULD still do that with a computer, but with much less certainty that you'll be getting out okay, and your diving is done for 24 hours, even if you have a spare computer in the bag. If you have a spare BT, no problem... you still have all of the information that you need to not miss the next dive.

BUT... note that in the baker's dozen, reliability is not really mentioned, other than pointing to the fact that it makes divers dependent.

 

[SeaJay]

SeaJay,

when we talked on the phone it was so plain to you that you had crossed the line and had done so on multiple occasions. And now you are saying that was the FIRST time you had been asked to keep it clean? Short memory my friend.

I went through my emails to find out what the truth really was... And it seems to really be halfway between your "truth" and mine.

I was "talked to" twice about "sexual innuendo" - from Uncle Pug. Once was over a year prior to my banning, and then again four months later, with a warning, "You'd better keep your posts cleaner." Three months after that, I wrote him again and said, "How am I doing?" He told me that he was much more pleased (apparently it was my duty to keep UP happy).

So... Eight months after my last "talking to," and five months after being told that my posts were "approved," I was banned suddenly without warning.

And that's a fact - no opinion in there.

But when you wanted back in, you claimed you got it fine. But now you don’t get it again. This bothers me.

I DO get it. I haven't changed my tune. I said something that got me in a lot of trouble. I shouldn't have, and I won't in the future.

...But that wasn't really why I was banned. Remember, I said the word "frisky," and implied that RavenC and I were together intimately. I didn't even say it specifically. That post was pulled, with no further drama, and I remained on the board. To tell people that I was banned for that post is wrong.

...What happened is that I complained. I argued with a moderator, however lightly, and said, "Awwwww... C'mon... That wasn't that bad..." The subject was dropped, but I found myself banned a few days later, even after the subject had been dropped.

I got banned because I argued with a moderator, and that's the bottom line. My "sexual innuendo" may have started it (and I admit fully to the deed - I should not have implied that I've ever done anything intimately with my fiancee in a public forum), and I remain very sorry for saying that. I still think it's rediculous, but it's true - that post was the catalyst for all of this.

...But that's not why I got banned.

You claim your attitude has changed, but I am not so sure. Your tune has a bit... and you blame others for it. I learned a long time ago to take responsibility for my own moods and actions. You can bet I won't blame you for any pity parties I might indulge myself in.

'Doc, I've got this awesome experience that I want to share... Better yet, it's a continuation of a previous account. I want to share it, and I want to excitedly tell people about it.

I want things to go back to normal. I want to continue on like nothing ever happened.

...But all of the emotion and wonderfullness that came with the accomplishment is clouded the moment I step foot in this board. I want to share, but y'all have made it clear that you are not my friends. Well - YOU haven't... You've made it clear that we are friends, and for that I am thankful. But 'Doc, the people you elected to police your board don't feel the same way.

Now I will be the first to admit that it has been great to not have to constantly hear about another of your posts that had to be edited. You have indeed changed the behavior that got you into trouble. Kudos to you for that!

Thanks.

You know, I'm beginning to believe that people are willing to be friends only if they can change who I am... And to be perfectly honest, that's not a "friend" in my book. What that is is a controlling personality who insists on trying to get everyone around them to change - to suit their own personality.

That's just not right, 'Doc. Who is it, do you think, that has this problem?

But you keep adding this "woe is me" caveat to your posts... like we are responsible for your moods and actions. The tune wasn't pleasant to begin with and only grates on the nerves with each rendition. It's time to try a different tune.

'Doc, I write from the heart. I enjoy pouring myself into my work emotionally... That's my style. It's how I write. I'm proud of it.

If my big toe hurts while I'm writing, then I want your big toe to hurt while you're reading. I want to put you RIGHT THERE. That's what I love most about writing.

...So you're right that my words carry a certain tone in them... And that you're sensing my frustration with the board, and specifically with a handful of moderators. In fact, I'm pleased that through something I wrote, you are able to sense my feeling of fear and helplessness. I have no idea when someone's going to pull my plug.

Sucks, doesn't it? You should feel it from this side.

But as much as we want to include you, we aren't going to let you spoil it for the rest. Go figure.

"Spoil it?"

Frankly, didn't the banning itself do quite a bit of "spoiling?" I mean, the bannings were top subject here for months. You're telling me that my use of the word "frisky" and the implication of me being intimate with the woman I love did more to upset the board than banning us?

On top of this you now ask for an apology for being given a time out. Bwahahaha! My son did that to me once, and it was just as funny with him. So you want a moderator to apologize for an incident that you caused and was bad enough to even be reported by Raven your SO??? You said it with such a straight face too.

No, I didn't ask that - in fact, I specifically said that I wasn't in a position to ask that (read again). I said I would really LIKE an apology, but that I must go without.

'Doc, I was BANNED. I mean, I was GONE. Permenantly. You and I talked, and I was allowed back on the board. That means that a decision was reversed.

...Which means that in the long run, it was decided that a BAN was not fair.

...And I always apologize for acting or making decisions unfairly.

...But I don't expect others to have my ethics. That's just me.

SeaJay, I love ya man. You have a lot of great potential and attributes, but humility isn't one of them.

I don't? I'm not sure where that comes from - is this whole thread (and the preceeding one) not about humility and being taught humility? Perhaps you define it differently than I do.

You have a great sense of adventure when you want, and some awesome ideas. You could be so much more than you are!

Gee, that's a bit bittersweet. I feel the same about you, 'Doc... You, too, could be so much more than you are.

...But of course, I mean that as a friend.

But you are letting your bitterness over an incident that you precipitated get in the way of having fun on this board. That's just too bad. In essence you hijacked your own thread that should have been celebratory because you just have to prove that you have been martyred on ScubaBoard. What a shame. I am sorry I couldn’t let your snide remarks pass without comment.

"Hijacked my own thread." Heh. You know, you're right.

...But I don't think it's the wrong thing to do, 'Doc. These threads are all about sharing the experience - from an emotional, "SeaJay" point of view. And right now, there's one thing that's on my mind, and that's the way things went down a few months ago. The feeling is stronger than the feeling of accomplishment with my Fundies class - and that should say a ton.

This is the last time I will try to reason with you about this. If you want to wallow in self pity, then there is nothing I can do about it. It's your decision to do so and I am sure you will garner about you a few who will cater to your moods. I really expected better of you. I guess I was wrong. I sincerely hope that you prove me wrong. These are words I would like to eat.

Hm.

'Doc, have you talked to CobaltBabe about this? I understand she is a moderator now... At least, that's what the story 'round town is... And she was one of those banned that day. What does she say about it? Last I talked to her, she said she really wasn't here much any more... Yet I've heard rumors that she's a mod.

I sure would like to get her thoughts on this.

 

[WaterDawg]

There should be some more trip reports floating around the board here. Also, the BAUE website has some good trip reports on it too. Not only is there a DIR-F report, but they also have a RecTriOx, a Tech1 and a Cave1 trip report posted there.

Good luck,

Boomx5,

You are correct the BAUE has good stuff but Seajays reports are second to none. Gatta wait for the good stuff. Folks (raven,SJ,Doc) I appreciate that you guys are trying to communicate here on an important issue but can we please get back to the class report.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Soooo ... is this what y'all talked about in DIR class?

Sheesh ... there's 27,000 members on this board, and maybe that many lurkers. How many of them do you think really want to be reading this stuff? My guess would be very few ...

Take it offline, please ... I'm sure you could work this out to a far better conclusion if you did so a bit less publicly, as would be the appropriate way to go about it.

A discussion of your DIR class would be a far more interesting read ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)