DIR And Handicapped Divers

[DrySuitDave]

Actually, I don't believe that the ADA is applicable as I don't believe that GUE qualifies as a public accommodation under the ADA. I also don't see it coming within the scope of any other type of activity covered by the ADA.

I have to agree with Northeast here, that was my first reaction when I read the early commentary. The ADA is a law that radical handicapped terrorists and their blood sucking lawyers use to extort $ out of businesses. These are the types that scream to be treated just like everyone else as if they were no different, then demand that mom-and pop shops spends thousands to make their hole in the wall joints wheelchair accessible, demand special bathrooms, demand special parking spaces, get the city of LA to sue a strip joint because the dance platform was wheelchair accessible for wheelchair bound nude dancers. Hey, it was right in the LA Times, made the city council the laughing stock of the nation.

As to politically correct, you can't say "persons with disabilities" anymore either, because that term has not been linguistically deconstructed to it's most lunatic extreme. You have to say "persons with exceptionally differing abilities" to make sure that it is impossible for anyone to tell someone is physically damaged in some fashion, no matter how badly.

Other examples are "manholes" are now "worker access covers" although worker is in the process of being replaced with the superior "downtrodden proletariat exploited masses". You used to be able to say mail-man, then mail-person, but because the male gender is offensive to victim feminists because phonetically mail sounds the same as male, you must now male gender cleanse the language and now you must say person-person to refer to a mail-man.

On the way to a tropical dive trip I overflew the main island in Fiji called Nadi, out of the 747 windows I saw a school that had a huge sign on the side visible from the air. It didn't say handicapped childrens school, it didn't say physically challenged childrens school, it didn't say handi-capable childrens school...it said; "CRIPPLED CHILDRENS SCHOOL" This apparently didn't result in an a factory turning out kids with broken self-esteem issues associated with being labeled with politically incorrect names.

I was on a dive crowded boat the the other day and noticed a woman perfectly walking around in full gear, laughing, diving, having a great time. When she peeled off her wetsuit, she had no leg but had a prosthesis. She unstrapped it, removed it and bikini clad and all, hopped right into the boat's hot tub and generally had a great time.....had quite the bubbly personality to boot. My gut reaction was: "...this woman's awesome!" I wanted to hi-5 her because she didn't let anything stop her from having a blast or feeling sorry for herself and crying about ADA crap.

I would think any instructor would try to reasonably accomodate anyone trying to certified to dive.....it's the right thing to do amongst decent people. Besides, it is an inspiration to the rest of us people.

 

[pipedope]

Gee Dave, I don't know if I should wish for your sake that you never need to use a wheelchair, or to wish you to need one as soon as possible.

The ADA is BS simply because it is so watered down as to be useless. The top official in charge of inforcement was one of the biggest critics of the law in the first place.

Then again, with a Supreme Court that thinks that someone's job is NOT a major life activity, how is the ADA a threat to anything?

I mean, do you even KNOW anyone who uses a wheelchair?

 

[Northeastwrecks]

Then again, with a Supreme Court that thinks that someone's job is NOT a major life activity, how is the ADA a threat to anything?

Which case was that?

 

[DA Aquamaster]

Gotta agree with Pipedope, if someone has an legitamate ADA claim, they file the complaint, the EEOC sits on it for 18 months then grants them a right to sue letter and then the plaintiff can spend the next three years and several thousand dollars in court. The ADA was well intended but is largely a joke as there is no balls in the enforcement end of it.

On the plus side, there is also an undue hardship provision to prevent businesses from having to spend excessive amounts of money on accomodations and small employers and business owners are not even impacted by it. Basically employers only have to make reasonable accomodations undeer title 1.

The effect is felt more often in terms of accessibility in new construction. For example a local movie theater owner added two more theaters to his 4 existing theaters and had to make the 2 new ones accessible with proper lines of sight etc, for wheelchair users. It cost a bit more, but the new theaters offer better viewing for everyone and given a toss up between 2 movies they want to see, people pick the one in one of the new theaters. Not a bad deal for anyone in the end. Where it gets abused is when local governments and planning and zoning authorities decide to go beyond the ADA requirements and impose manadatory accessibility requirements on existing small businesses that really cannot afford it.

The ADA does not directly affect a dive instruction business, but equal access is a potential issue if they use a public facility for their training. The YMCA or city public works department has a big problem on their hands if a dive instructor renting their pool discriminates on the basis of disability. So unless the instructor owns his own pool, they may be indirectly impacted by the ADA.

And like DSD suggests it is nice to at least consider following the spirit of the law even if not required to follow the letter of the law because it is the right thing to do.

I'm a little biased though, as a Voc. Rehab Counselor I work with persons with disabilites who have been injured and are trying to return to the work force. In my experience, it's less effective to use the legal or the moral "it's the right thing to do" arguments as in this country what drives vocational rehabilitation is money. Vocational Rehabilitaiton is supported because it saves tax dollars and worker comp premiums if you can put people back to work. Similarly businesses will support hiring disabled employees if you can show them that it is good business that improves their bottom line.

 

[DrySuitDave]

I read quite alot of law journals.. I can't tell you how many handicapped types and their lawyers stake out little mom-and pop shops, then spend a hundred to file a lawsuit, then settle for several thousand because that is less expensive to do then retain a lawyer and spend alot of time bringing up AT TRIAL the hardship thing, wherein affirmative convincing proof is required of the accused, who must prove themselves innocent under said provision. It is economic extortion.

Then of course since people only remember the outrageous, such detracts from legitimate needs to reasonably accomodate handicapped people. When buildings are being designed and built from scratch it is less costly for a large facility to have ramps for everyone rather then adding ramps long after the fact. But ramps for handicapped wheelchair bound nude dancers?!

I kind of view being handicapped or substantially injured as a semi-lottery. It is the right thing to do to pay a little teeny bit incrementally into the system by everyone as insurance, in case we ever suffer the same fate, our payback will be reasonable accomodations for the needs of those. But using the ADA as a financial extortion weapon as it so often is is just wrong and detracts from the legitimate reasonable needs of the unfortunate.

I would think most instructors and students, upon seeing a handicapped person who was otherwise capable, would all think it was awesome if any handicapped person joined a dive class and would lend a hand to accomodate such. I still can't get over how impressed I was with the one legged diver girl I saw.....

 

[fgray1]

Does the DIR philosophy allow for the training of handicapped divers?

Here's the question
It's simple Yes OR No

Fred

 

[DivingGal]

I can not speak for aspects of DIR training/philosphy as, other than reading their text on fundamentals, and reading various informative threads on the board, but I am trained as a HSA DM, so here's my 0.02 worth:

I strongly suspect that a diver that is recognized by the HSA as a level B or C would not meet the training standards that I believe the folks have for DIR. Some level A would not either.

Depending on the disability that some divers have, the modifications required for weight placement, and equipment modification required so a diver can dive safely simply go against everything I've read about DIR.

So... like many divers who like some aspects of DIR but not others, a handicapped diver may only be able to meet some parts of their training/philosophy standards.

Hope this helps.

 

[Northeastwrecks]

Here's the question
It's simple Yes OR No

Fred

Actually, its not. As other people have noted, it would appear to depend on the disability and the diver's ability to perform the skills that GUE requires.

If you're looking for whether GUE has specific provisions for people who can't perform certain skills, then you can answer that for yourself. Go to www.gue.com, where you will find links to GUE's training materials. Read them and your questions may actually be answered.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

I read quite alot of law journals.. I can't tell you how many handicapped types and their lawyers stake out little mom-and pop shops, then spend a hundred to file a lawsuit, then settle for several thousand because that is less expensive to do then retain a lawyer and spend alot of time bringing up AT TRIAL the hardship thing, wherein affirmative convincing proof is required of the accused, who must prove themselves innocent under said provision. It is economic extortion.

I agree Dave, the sad fact is that lawyers are one of the few apex predators not facing the threat of extinction. Makes you want to start long lining around court houses to thin 'em out a bit.

 

[bridgediver]

Here's the question
It's simple Yes OR No

Fred

Maybe you have an axe to grind here?