I would figure if EAN30 is good then 30/30 is muy bueno.
DIR and computers
- Thread starter MHK
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Uncle Pug once bubbled...
I would figure if EAN30 is good then 30/30 is muy bueno.
True Uncle Pug ... but I really wouldn't advocate Trimix for the masses. (Come to think of it, I wouldn't advocate the wrecks in Nanaimo for the masses either).
That's where a lot of the confusion comes in on these discussions ... we keep mixing up the type of diver we're talking about.
I think there is (and should continue to be) a significant difference between the way the casual diver approaches diving and the way those trained for technical diving approach it.
Me ... I'm somewhere in between. I don't do Trimix ... not that I won't at some point in the future, but right now the type of diving I do doesn't require it. Yes, it's better ... it's also quite a bit more expensive.
Scuba, like everything else we do in life, is a tradeoff between cost and benefit. If you limit your scuba to recreational depths and profiles, air is adequate, Nitrox is better, and Trimix is best (in some cases) ... each comes at an appreciably higher cost to the diver. And that cost has to be weighed against the benefit realized by the diver for the specific dive.
As an example, even though I prefer using Nitrox ... EAN21 is just fine for a dive at the Edmonds Underwater Park. I can do a 65 or 70 minute dive without even coming close to my NDL, and swimming in to shore will put me at an ascent rate of something like 3 or 4 feet per minute (if that). So what's the point, really, of using a "standard mix" of EAN32 for a dive like that?
But getting back to the issue of "using your brain" while diving for a moment ... for the newer diver, or those who only dive occasionally, there's only so much bandwidth available (keeping in mind that their "muscle memory" isn't as reliable as it is for those of us who dive several times a week). So, what do you think's more important ... having them toss their computer in favor of mental calculations, or concentrating on buoyancy control and gas management?
Me too ...
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
This thread is about DIR and computers... no one is recommending that the masses toss their computer... and I certainly wouldn't call what I do mental calculations.
You are the one who brought up the wrecks of Nanaimo... and I was responding with a standard mix useful down to 120'.
As for keeping the artificial distinction between technical diving and recreational diving you have to realize that for some of us there is no distinction. I do constrain my profile and make it what I want it... but that is different than being limited. If I want to go deeper and stay longer I use the appropriate gases for that.
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Ah, but for the new or casual diver there is a distinction. I recognize that you are a very experienced diver, and that for you this is second nature. But let's refer back to something MHK said earlier in this thread ...
OK ... so at what point are these other agencies supposed to start teaching rules of thumb? OW? AOW? Tech classes? You may not consider on-the-fly addition and division to be "mental calculations" ... but most folks would.
It will be interesting to see if GUE teaches this method in it's upcoming OW curriculum. From what I've been told, they've already stopped teaching it in DIR-F. And if they don't teach this "basic information" from the outset, how will they approach the concept of situational awareness in a manner that sets them apart from the rest of the industry?
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
Whirling Girl
Contributor
Interesting thread. I recently started diving gauge, myself; I learned it in DIRF. Thanks, MHK, for being so committed to teaching and sharing information. I had the same experience you described very early in this thread; I came out of DIRF wondering why I hadn't learned alot of these things before because they seemed both basic and vital.
I like diving gauge much better. I tried it as an experiment and immediately found that I have to be much more conscious and aware during an entire dive, and that actually is much more fun. I don't think I had an understanding of what it meant to dive with my brain "on" until I started diving gauge. But that's just me.
I agree that I could use the same rules for diving gauge during a dive and still keep my computer in computer mode, but I think it would be alot harder, rather than easier.
I think that some of the conflict and confusion arises when discussing certain aspects of DIR diving because DIR involves an overall change in orientation to diving. The orientation changes everything about how you dive. It all flows from that one source. If you don't recognize the differences in approach, at least for the sake of the discussion, then the rest of it doesn't flow.
Margaret
I like diving gauge much better. I tried it as an experiment and immediately found that I have to be much more conscious and aware during an entire dive, and that actually is much more fun. I don't think I had an understanding of what it meant to dive with my brain "on" until I started diving gauge. But that's just me.
I agree that I could use the same rules for diving gauge during a dive and still keep my computer in computer mode, but I think it would be alot harder, rather than easier.
I think that some of the conflict and confusion arises when discussing certain aspects of DIR diving because DIR involves an overall change in orientation to diving. The orientation changes everything about how you dive. It all flows from that one source. If you don't recognize the differences in approach, at least for the sake of the discussion, then the rest of it doesn't flow.
Margaret
cornfed
Mindless lemming
I believe this point was already addressed.
Whirling Girl
Contributor
Bob, it actually becomes part of your horizon, so to speak. Like when you're driving, and you check what's in front of you, check your mirrors, check your speed, check your temp, check the sides, check in front again... looking at your depth, the time you have spent getting there and at that depth, and knowing what it means, becomes automatic. It's a calculation, sure, but it's so instantaneous that it's not really math anymore, because you know what the numbers mean, I guess.
I'm not saying it very well.
Bob, I don't know the answers to your question about whether the 120 calc will be taught in GUE's openwater curriculum. But GUE already approaches the concept of 'situational awareness' in a manner that sets them apart from the rest of the industry. At least, that is my view. Even if I hadn't learned the 120 rule in DIRF, I came out of that class (after only being certified as a diver a few months before) with an incredible change in my awareness, at the same time that I knew I had a long way to go.
It definitely gives you a goal to work toward.
Margaret
cornfed
Mindless lemming
Bob,
Do you know why they stopped teaching it in DIR-F? If you do I would like for you to explain it to us. Otherwise you can cease you belligerent attempts to drag this tread out.
I don't know about everyone else's class, but mine was taught by MHK, and it was taught in June of this year, and it included the 120 rule.
It was also one of the last things we discussed. I think due to the fact that the 120 rule is a lot like learning all of the skills in the class. If the people in the class aren;t ready for it, it isn't taught.
Maybe I'm missing something, but what does this have to do with Situational awareness other than glancing at your BT/depth gauge every 5 minutes? I don't see this as task loading or anything like that, situational awareness is being aware of what is going on with your team and dealing with any issues that arise.
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Um ... Drew ... I'm just trying to take part in the discussion. FWIW, I don't think anything I've said in this or any other thread on this board was said in a belligerent manner.
To answer your question, I was told by a couple of different friends ... both of them 5th D regulars ... that it was no longer a part of the course for liability reasons. They got it from Sonya.
Hope that responds to your question in a non-belligerent manner.
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
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