Devils Throat In Jan

[Texas Torpedo]

I agree with Don, here. Someone who's done this amount of instructional work most certainly deserves a "pass" on the requirement to be observed for a day or two before doing Devil's.

A pass? Oh please..

I guess maybe they should also get a pass on cave training so they can just go a little beyond the daylight zone and take a peek around the next corner in that beautiful cenote or system in Florida. After all, they are an instructor with countless dives and students trained, right? Wrong.. And quite a few of them have paid the ultimate price for that attitude, and sadly those that followed them on a 'trust me dive' thanks to their 'instructor' rating.

An OW instructor that has only been diving in local lakes and quarries (etc) is not automatically qualified to dive more advanced spots in Cozumel or around the world, and neither is a "Dive Master".. Sure, some might like to flash that pro cert, and I'm guessing most ops will give them some credit for it, but if they've never been in a ripping current, overhead environment, etc, then it's going to be a new experience.. And one they might not be prepared to deal, especially if something goes wrong..

To me, Devil's throat isn't that big a deal.. Been there, done it.. Will do it again if others on the boat are qualified and want to visit it.. But, the potential for things to go bad there is higher than most dive sites on the Island... Depth, Overhead environment, lack of natural light and visibility especially if divers aren't good with their buoyancy and fining techniques, confined spaces making it hard to turn around if you needed to in a hurry / emergency, etc..

If completing the amount of work and dives required for these certifications doesn't get you a pass then I have to wonder why we even have them.

-Charles

Uhm.. How many dives are the minimum required to become an OW instructor for PADI? 100 Dives to take the instructor exam.. (That's a bit of a joke all by itself, IMO.) And probably a fair number of those are assisting with classes if someone is going for the "zero to hero" route. Obviously, most will have more dives and experience than that but how do you know? How does any dive op in Cozumel know the difference between the instructor that has dove all over the world and the freshly minted one that passed the IE with 101 dives and has been diving no place else but their local inland spot that never change except for temperature and viz? They don't.. Not unless they've dove with them.. Pretty sound reasoning IMO..

PS. Wydoin, my response is not directed at you but the topic of someone being ready for any environment just because they hold an instructor rank. You may be an exceptional instructor with experience in places that make Cozumel dives a walk in the park. Welcome to Scuba Board.. Hope to see you around in more threads.

 

[DandyDon]

Well, I don't necessarily think that DT should be done by recreational divers, but the issue of whether this particular Instructor needs to be checked out is different. I would not do DT again without my pony, but some do; operators take rec divers there and I don't think he needs to be tested before going with others.

 

[Blackwood]

Hello All, Diving in Coz on Jan 3rd. would really like to do Devils Throat with a good shop. Any recomendations? Having trouble finding a shop that will say "Yes" we are going there. Any Help Appreciated

Any particular reason? Devils throat is a short dive, and isn't nearly as pretty to my eyes as some of the others sites (santa rosa wall being my favorite). If I was only there for one day, I'd be looking to maximize my bottom time.

My $0.02

edit: correction - I did Cathedral, another site at Punta Sur, not Devil's Throat. I don't suspect the scenery is substantially different, but I can't say so with confidence.

 

[judydivescoz]

I think we all have a story about a person who had a long list of achievements and designations but proved to be less than a good diver. A few years ago, we went diving with a man who had claimed 2000 logged dives, was an instructor and was also retired from the Navy as a dive instructor. It was his first day of 4 scheduled dive days. I am so glad we did not do DT with this guy. He asked for 35 lbs on his weight belt, we waited for him to get out his 7mil suit but no, he was diving in his bathing suit. He was questioned but insisted he knew what he was doing. Immediately after his back roll into the water he sank like a ton of bricks....he created big puff of sand on the bottom when he landed. We could actually hear him huffing and puffing underwater and then he shrieked and pointed to his knee. We had to do an emergency assent after less than 7 minutes. The man claimed he hurt his knee so we took him back to the marina. We will never be sure what the real story was. We never saw him again. Had this been at a more advanced site, it could have had a very bad ending. My point telling this story (again I am sure we all have them) is that you never know about a person until you actually dive with them even with the designations they have (or claim to) have. Given this experience, I fully understand why any dive op would not take someone to any advanced site without diving with them first. This post is not directed at the OP but at the situation in general. Its a tough call for any dive op to change their standard operation procedure that they are comfortable with for any diver.

 

[ggunn]

Well, I don't necessarily think that DT should be done by recreational divers, but the issue of whether this particular Instructor needs to be checked out is different. I would not do DT again without my pony, but some do; operators take rec divers there and I don't think he needs to be tested before going with others.

If it were my op, I would err to the side of caution. I wouldn't take ANYONE whom I hadn't seen dive (or at least been given a referral from someone I know personally and trust) to Devil's Throat, or Barracuda, or Maracaibo, irrespective of how many pieces of paper he has managed to accumulate. Nothing personal, but when you have to deal with hundreds of divers a year and a single diver mishap can ruin your business, it's not worth the risk. No single customer's patronage is worth it. It's not a question of if whether he should be "allowed" to make the dive, it's a matter of if an op should be forced to take the risk. If he can find an op that's willing to do it, then good for him. I wouldn't.

It's on the wall in every bar: We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone.

 

[Pelagicsal]

The idea of giving someone a pass because they have an Instructor's card cracks me up. When I was a baby diver - sub200 dives - I was a slave in a dive shop in St. Thomas. I got to go on the boat when they had a visiting instructor diving. My job was to watch after and herd the instructor back to the group...
Many years ago and many dive "pros" herded.

Agree with most everyone else. First day - especially in Cozumel - I'd pick some gorgeous piece of the wall to drift along and enjoy.

 

[Coral-Reefer]

I would not dive DT again unless the boat was really psyched about it, then I would do it. I've done it 2-3 times and the last time I did it I came out about 129' and felt a bit narced and dizzy; rose to 90' and I was fine. The best part of that dive IMO is coming out of the tunnel to the wall, so i would MUCH rather dive a cool wall. I also agree there is no bad dive. I would be happy at 25' for a couple of hours!

 

[DandyDon]

Any particular reason? Devils throat is a short dive, and isn't nearly as pretty to my eyes as some of the others sites (santa rosa wall being my favorite). If I was only there for one day, I'd be looking to maximize my bottom time.

My $0.02

edit: correction - I did Cathedral, another site at Punta Sur, not Devil's Throat. I don't suspect the scenery is substantially different, but I can't say so with confidence.

Cathedral is a much better dive. DT is a boring cave as I recall, and not actually appropriate for recreational divers in my opinion.

The idea of giving someone a pass because they have an Instructor's card cracks me up. When I was a baby diver - sub200 dives - I was a slave in a dive shop in St. Thomas. I got to go on the boat when they had a visiting instructor diving. My job was to watch after and herd the instructor back to the group...
Many years ago and many dive "pros" herded.

Agree with most everyone else. First day - especially in Cozumel - I'd pick some gorgeous piece of the wall to drift along and enjoy.

Eh, maybe I'm putting too much faith into his credentials. Maybe Christi has to be checked out the first day of an away trip?

I bet it he contacts a large number of Ops on Coz tho, a large portion will agree to take him there if it can be scheduled, and a few will build the schedule around his request.

 

[fishi]

It wouldn't be fair to the other divers on the boat to take someone there without making sure they are comfortable at depth. If you have ever seen a panicked diver then you know what I mean. You cant control them, they do what they want. It would be terrifying to be in a confined space with one.

I also think Cozumel has a lot more to offer than devil's throat. It lacks color and its full of sand. Did all that sand come from hurricane Wilma? or was it always like that?

 

[judydivescoz]

It wouldn't be fair to the other divers on the boat to take someone there without making sure they are comfortable at depth. If you have ever seen a panicked diver then you know what I mean. You cant control them, they do what they want. It would be terrifying to be in a confined space with one.

I also think Cozumel has a lot more to offer than devil's throat. It lacks color and its full of sand. Did all that sand come from hurricane Wilma? or was it always like that?

Dove DT in August. It was very pretty with lots of color. We used a flashlight in the "throat" to check it out. Still prefer Barracuda for an advanced dive.