Design for Idiots

[sambolino44]

OK, the word "idiots" is an exaggeration, but one thing that just drives me crazy is how products are designed to sell, not to perform.

This came up in a recent thread about a Mobby's drysuit vent that was positioned a little further back on the arm than most, and it works a lot better; you almost don't have to pay any attention to it at all and it vents automatically because of its position. It's a very simple thing, and you'd think once somebody worked it out everybody would start putting the valve on that way. The only reason I can think why you'd put the valve further forward is so that it's easier to reach, but I don't know of any experienced divers who mess with the valve; you just leave it open and use body position to vent. And besides, it's not as if you can't reach the Mobby's valve, it's just not as easy to reach as the ones that are on the front of the arm. And the only reason I can think of putting the valve on the front is so they can sell suits to inexperienced divers who think they'll need to reach the valve a lot.

You see it all the time with all kinds of products, but it really bugs me with scuba gear, which is something that has a definite function. There have been many threads on this subject already; bells and whistles that attract the newbies, but that the experienced divers avoid.

As long as the way gear gets into the hands of new divers doesn't change, this problem won't go away. But that's another reason why this problem is especially infuriating with scuba gear; it used to be the case that new divers were introduced to gear by their instructors, and the instructors used to be well-informed. So there wasn't much market for bells-and-whistles gear because new divers were educated as to why it wasn't desirable. That whole system has broken down and now it actually makes sense, from a marketing point of view, for manufacturers to add "features" that don't add any value to the product other than getting it out the door.

I have no solution to offer, other than continuing to promote better education for divers and higher standards for instructors.

 

[300bar]

Well actualy.I like the valve a little more FORWARD.When the valve would be more to the back it would vent when I don't want it to.
But these "ïnventions"come from the market,divers asking for a different placement of the valve.

We've seen this in wetsuitcolors aswell.10-15 years ago all suits had the brightest colors one could think of.
Now most suit come in black gray or (dark)blue.Why? because customers asked for it for years.
Now that we do have those dark colors,we want green, pink and yellow again.

It's just what we ask for,it takes some time but things change and will keep changing.

 

[Walter]

one thing that just drives me crazy is how products are designed to sell, not to perform.

There are lots of examples. Padding and cummerbunds on BCs come immediately to mind.

 

[bwerb]

Walter, I'd take the same quote as you and say that it's not just the products which are designed to sell, not to perform and say it often applies to the courses and the divers themselves...the classes are designed to sell...not to help the diver perform.

 

[bwerb]

As to the original question/comment...don't you think it's extremely telling to look at the world of tech/cave diving. What type of gear decisions and choices are made.

Jetfins - ancient design and yet arguably still the most popular fins for tech.
Backplate and wings - simple webbing, single vent, basic inflator, stainless d-rings and closure
SPG - basic analog gauge
knife/shears - small and sharp
weights - weight belt with lead
attachment points - tied cave-line, o-rings and stainless bolt snaps
compass - wrist mounted analog
tanks - often unpainted, stripped of boots and stickers etc.
dive planning - done prior to the dive with printed contingency plans, not done riding the computer.
regulators tend to be proven models instead of the latest and greatest.

It's funny, tech divers won't be running down to the shop for the latest doo-dad but often wear-out stuff and buy multiple sets of tanks, regulators, exposure protection, two masks etc.

 

[Rick Inman]

The only reason I can think why you'd put the valve further forward is so that it's easier to reach... And the only reason I can think of putting the valve on the front is so they can sell suits to inexperienced divers who think they'll need to reach the valve a lot.

Some drysuit rear zippers come around the arm in a way that requires the dump valve to be placed forward.

 

[Teamcasa]

As to the original question/comment...don't you think it's extremely telling to look at the world of tech/cave diving. What type of gear decisions and choices are made.

Jetfins - ancient design and yet arguably still the most popular fins for tech.
Backplate and wings - simple webbing, single vent, basic inflator, stainless d-rings and closure
SPG - basic analog gauge
knife/shears - small and sharp
weights - weight belt with lead
attachment points - tied cave-line, o-rings and stainless bolt snaps
compass - wrist mounted analog
tanks - often unpainted, stripped of boots and stickers etc.
dive planning - done prior to the dive with printed contingency plans, not done riding the computer.
regulators tend to be proven models instead of the latest and greatest.

It's funny, tech divers won't be running down to the shop for the latest doo-dad but often wear-out stuff and buy multiple sets of tanks, regulators, exposure protection, two masks etc.

What, no can light?

Gear is just a tool. Specific tools have specific jobs.
Diving gear has made some significant improvements over the years and we enjoy the benefits. Lights, computers, electronics, materials and much more.

But like anything else, there are gizmos and useless stuff made and sold everyday, I just don't buy (much) of it.

 

[bwerb]

What, no can light?

good catch...I was thinking in terms of simplicity vs. doodaditude...my can light is pretty simple but in terms of price vs. a "regular" flashlight...yikes:shocked2:

I know that you understood me but to clarify, my point was that so often dive retailers push "new" and "crap-laden" to get added sales instead of looking at it from the standpoint that divers spend money on gear/fills/services as they dive, it's not an inexpensive venture to pursue. Why not recommend simpler gear which may not be the latest but is simple and proven...and will take you as far as you want to go. Instead of thinking about it as a one time buy where you've got to maximize the purchase price, look at it in terms of long term support. (I think my bias may be a tad transparent...can you tell I got burned with several grand worth of stuff which was less than optimal?)

 

[scubafanatic]

...I suspect the crap-laden-gear is a measure of the true nature of the average diver...I'm something of an admitted scuba 'gear-head' myself, so I'm usually surrounded by the newer/recreational diver....the newer divers don't know any better....but I've observed even the usual 'experienced' recreational diver isn't much of a gear-head either.....their priorities are just to go diving...relax.....eat good food/drink.....do touristy topside things...if their gear is sufficient enough to 'get wet', they're good to go...a fair number spend their 'big' gear bucks on camera gear, if anything. I'm a rarety, I'm always looking to optmize my gear features/configuration/quality. I think it's safe to say the DIR/tech crowd represents a very tiny minority percentage of the diver population, which helps explain the recreational orientation of the gear manufacturing industry...in percentage terms, it appears most gear is bought by new divers that drop out of scuba early...or.....recreational-casual 1 or 2 warm-water scuba vacations annually...or the mid 40's and up 'affluent' vacationer that could afford whatever but just doesn't care that much about smart/elegant/well-designed gear....if they can just dive tolerably with it, they're golden and don't seek anything beyond that.

 

[sambolino44]

I guess the drysuit valve location probably wasn't such a good example of this, because it seems to be one of those things that some people just have a legitimate preference for. But I think you all got the point, and there is no end of good examples of what I'm talking about. I had a friend show up for snorkeling one time with the new mask he just bought. He thought it was great that the lens was shaded like sunglasses.